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 Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo

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Balladeer
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Thu 20 Dec 2018 - 21:51

Glad I saw the best one then!  (According to the Mas Spectrometer (that's possibly my best pun of the year, and yes I'm damn proud of it).)  I've not seen many other new films this year, and wouldn't rightly be able to recommend The Incredibles 2.  Still need to see Wreck-It Ralph 2, mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Tue 25 Dec 2018 - 16:33

Okay boys: best Christmas films? Muppets Christmas Carol is way out in front for me, but: Snowman? Gremlins? Die Hard? What are your faves?
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Tue 25 Dec 2018 - 21:31

Hmm... it's a three way toss-up between Home Alone, Elf and Miracle on 34th Street for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Wed 26 Dec 2018 - 0:19

Die Hard and Elf are the two I always try to watch. My family are big fans of Arthur Christmas.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Wed 26 Dec 2018 - 0:32

Gremlins for me and while it isn't a Christmas film I like watching The Goonies around this time of year.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Wed 26 Dec 2018 - 10:09

Drunkalilly wrote:
My family are big fans of Arthur Christmas.

How could I omit this?  Banger.  

Admission: I've never seen any of Elf, Miracle on 34th Street, or any but the really iconic bits in Die Hard.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Thu 10 Jan 2019 - 12:13

That moment when Star Wars comes up in a discussion and afterwards you realise the last jedi was actually a pretty bad movie. I've been living a lie the last twelve months!
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Fri 11 Jan 2019 - 0:44

The Last Jedi is the best Star Wars (although Ive also not seen it since the theatres so what do I know?)
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Fri 11 Jan 2019 - 2:32

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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Fri 11 Jan 2019 - 18:35

Sleep
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Fri 11 Jan 2019 - 19:57

I think my PM just missed you before you went to bed, Athers.  Anyway, I've put all of your posts into one, and spoilered them to stop them from taking up most of this page.  As I said in the message, I know we all double-post from time to time, but seven consecutive posts in less than a day (seven massive posts!) is a bit much.

I'd also appreciate it if you could give a one-paragraph TL;DR summary of the main points, or a contents.  I am interested in what you have to say, but I'm simply not poring through a seven-post rant for that.  Not from anyone, mark you, this isn't your style at fault.  Jimbob could write a seven-monsterpost rant, filled with his award-winning jokes, and I'd say the same.  I daresay most of us will be similar. Then, if we find something where we want to look into your detailed thoughts, we can dig into the body of your post(s).

As for my stance on TLJ, if it falls apart upon re-analysis then I'd rather not re-analyse it.  I really enjoyed watching it in the cinema, much more so than either 7, or 2 and 3 (slash 5 and 6 slash Empire and Return) when I watched them on the telly.  It was good fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Sat 12 Jan 2019 - 11:47

Balladeer wrote:
Jimbob could write a seven-monsterpost rant, filled with his award-winning jokes, and I'd say the same.  I daresay most of us will be similar.
Oh shit, do I do that? Sorry if I do that. Feel free to banish me, I'm pretty self-important sometimes.

EDIT:
1) Self-important, not Elf-Important FFS
2) Having re-read this: to clarify, I am having a go at myself here, no-one else Embarrassed


Last edited by Jimbob on Sat 12 Jan 2019 - 12:01; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Sat 12 Jan 2019 - 11:53

Purely hypothetical example, using you as one of the funnier people around here. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Sat 12 Jan 2019 - 13:14

I wouldn't really call it a rant, there are definitely parts where I do rant when the movie gets especially awful and insulting, but overall I'd like to think the passion that drives me to rant has flickered out a while ago, the fire dying down to embers of cold disdain. The problem is that you really do have to go deep on a lot of these flaws to really explain why they're problems. But I'll make a briefer TLDR version of some of the big ones. Still longish by forum post standards.

Basically the entire film, and I do mean the entire film, is an inconsistent mess that tries far too hard to "subvert expectations" to the point it has undermined both itself, the franchise, and the next episode. Why?

-The world-building is in complete tatters after things like the lightspeed suicide attack, a move that due to its effectiveness and apparent-ease calls into question every space fight in every previous movie that involved a giant unstoppable ship and even the tactics employed in TLJ itself.

-The stakes for the climax are in tatters because this movie went out of its way to portray the two villains that now succeed Snoke as "big bads" as incompetents. Neither Hux nor Kylo Ren are remotely intimidating (in fact the climax made them both into comedic relief. Don't tell me you didn't laugh at Kylo's "MORE!" command during the attack of Luke), nor are they credible as rulers of a vast faction. Couple that with how neither poses a threat to Rey and you've got a fizzler of a climax to a trilogy next time.

-Everyone was portrayed as idiots in the movie and it was a race to the bottom. One can point out loads of tactical issues in any of the space fights in the movie, from the very opening right through to the previously-mentioned lightspeed suicide attack.

-It provides some absolutely horrifying messages to young people. Rey, who is supposed to be Luke Skywalker for girls, is portrayed as basically perfect. Many like to say Luke was unnaturally talented in the first trilogy, but what they do not realise is that Luke made many mistakes because of his very personality, and that the trilogy was about him paying for and learning from those mistakes (at the same point in Empire that Luke was having his hand chopped off Rey was shooting down three ties in a single blast). And so what we have is a character designed to be a role-model that is more likely to make many a girl develop self-esteem issues regarding her own personality, just like how many already develop body-image esteem issues.

-Then there's Killing the past is not only an awful thing to say about a franchise like Star Wars, but it's also an insult to every person that gave their lives for, you know, freedom of the world. Which is ironic considering Rian outright references world war combat in several sequences in the movie, most notably the awful bombing sequence at the opener (I again have to ask: where are the Y-Wings, those ships designed to both bomb things and engage in dogfights so they aren't just fodder for hoards of Tie-Fighters?).

A lot of what I went into detail about in my posts before, on their own, in a vacuum, would be forgivable and ignorable. But there are just so many issues in the movie that it's impossible. Even my attempt at a TLDR-post is still long by forum standards.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Sat 12 Jan 2019 - 17:07

That's much better!

I will pick up on point 2, because... I find it funny. Kylo Ren was never going to live up to Darth Vader, so I'm glad they took him in his own direction. That direction is... amusing and whiny to be honest. Then again, I preferred Thor 2 to Thor because I found it funnier, which I believe is not the established opinion.

Rey being Mary Sue-ish is, I think, an issue with men writing female characters in general. Male writers know they have to make 'strong female characters' and aren't quite sure how to do it, for some reason. Instead, she's a plot device for the Luke-on-the-island scene, but Luke is pretty strong in that so that's fine. I think that's the (male-dominated) film industry as a whole taking baby steps, and it will improve, and for now I'm just glad we have the star being female (and pissing off a lot of people who deserve to be pissed off). Fortunately there's also Carrie Fisher playing a much more interesting Leia than what I've seen in the original films.

The other points may well be valid, but my final paragraph from my previous post applies there.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Sat 12 Jan 2019 - 23:09

I'm surprised you've turned on TLJ this much Athrun - you gave it a pretty glowing write-up after release from looking back in the thread!

I'm not the film's biggest fan by any stretch as evidenced by my post about it back after release, but I did want to counter a couple of your points:

Athrun888 wrote:

-The world-building is in complete tatters after things like the lightspeed suicide attack, a move that due to its effectiveness and apparent-ease calls into question every space fight in every previous movie that involved a giant unstoppable ship and even the tactics employed in TLJ itself.  

Yo. And that's canon too.

Athrun888 wrote:
-The stakes for the climax are in tatters because this movie went out of its way to portray the two villains that now succeed Snoke as "big bads" as incompetents.  Neither Hux nor Kylo Ren are remotely intimidating (in fact the climax made them both into comedic relief.  Don't tell me you didn't laugh at Kylo's "MORE!" command during the attack of Luke), nor are they credible as rulers of a vast faction.  Couple that with how neither poses a threat to Rey and you've got a fizzler of a climax to a trilogy next time.  

I'm fully expecting a time-skip for Episode IX to raise the stakes as I do think that a direct follow-up to where TLJ left things wouldn't be a fitting finale, but I think your point about Kylo Ren not being intimidating is kinda meant to be the point. He's still a lost, frustrated angsty boy who's trying desperately to be something he's not - Vader - and failing at it miserably. I'm really interested to see what they do with his arc in IX.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Tue 15 Jan 2019 - 11:40

I probably should clarify that I actually very much like Kylo Ren and what they've been doing with him.  He's been a temperamental insecure wannabe since the first movie, and it's a refreshing take that can still yield a good attack dog for the villains, with his breakdowns posing both opportunities for comedy and intimidation.  My problem is that Snoke's removal means there is nobody who can carry on as a genuine mastermind type villain.  Hux was strategically incompetent from start to finish in the film, and Kylo Ren is far too unstable for the viewer to buy that he's the leader of the First Order.

Yet those are the two people who will be leading the First Order from here on out.  Not only is this something that doesn't sell, it also makes the next movie incredibly predictable, because it's fairly obvious that the two of them are going to butt heads and destablise the First Order in ways that will allow the resistance to secure victory.  

Yes, Snoke is a cliche villain.  However cliches are not things to be shunned just because they are cliches.  Cliches often develop because they make sense.  They are then popularised because of their effectiveness.  Snoke's removal has done far more harm to the ongoing story than subverting our expectations of his role has done.  Neither Kylo Ren nor Hux are villains that work as main villains, Snoke was.   

As for men being unable to write good female characters, I've seen them do it loads of times.  In books.  Tiffany Aching from Discworld for example.  Brandon Sanderson has had some pretty good female protagonists as well.  Cithrin in the Dagger and the Coin series was nothing short of genius.  Then there's at least four in Game of Thrones.  To be clear I can name at least a dozen from female authors as well, in case anyone thinks I have some sort of prejudice going on here.  

But you are right, plenty of men also cannot write good female characters either.  However I actually have my suspicions that the poor quality in characterisation of women in Hollywood movies right now actually stems from leaning too far to the other side.  The social movements have retaliated to toxic cliches of old by swinging things too far the other way.  

I don't buy the poor characterisation of characters like Rey in TLJ as a male writer problem, the head of Lucasfilms right now is a woman who, as far as I can tell, is pretty big on these social trends (specifically the female power movement, to use the most polite term.  With statements like "The Force is female" I'd use far ruder ones in different company).  she is basically the Kevin Fiege of Star Wars right now.  And yet everything in TLJ was fine with her, got greenlit, and released.  

No, I think characters like Rey are a problem because people have become too spineless to give female characters realistic personalities and flaws, lest they be seen as sexist by the outrage culture on social media.  Can't have a female get into some trouble otherwise it's victimising women.  Can't have a female character have personality flaws and make mistakes that hurt others, that demonizes women.  We cannot even have characters in fictional works just being characters any more because of how hellbent society is on politicising every thing under the sun.

It's all very ironic, because this culture is having the opposite effect they want.  They want equality and claim they want an end to shallow female characters in mainstream media, and yet their pushing that media into creating characters that are becoming even more shallow than when women were basically just there as romantic interests.

And to be clear I speak as someone who actively enjoys and seeks out stories with strong female characters.  However it seems Hollywood seems to mistake Mary Sues for strong characters, when what people really want are female characters that are strongly written.  

JayMoyles wrote:
Athrun888 wrote:

-The world-building is in complete tatters after things like the lightspeed suicide attack, a move that due to its effectiveness and apparent-ease calls into question every space fight in every previous movie that involved a giant unstoppable ship and even the tactics employed in TLJ itself.  

Yo. And that's canon too.

Athrun888 wrote:
-The stakes for the climax are in tatters because this movie went out of its way to portray the two villains that now succeed Snoke as "big bads" as incompetents.  Neither Hux nor Kylo Ren are remotely intimidating (in fact the climax made them both into comedic relief.  Don't tell me you didn't laugh at Kylo's "MORE!" command during the attack of Luke), nor are they credible as rulers of a vast faction.  Couple that with how neither poses a threat to Rey and you've got a fizzler of a climax to a trilogy next time.  

I'm fully expecting a time-skip for Episode IX to raise the stakes as I do think that a direct follow-up to where TLJ left things wouldn't be a fitting finale, but I think your point about Kylo Ren not being intimidating is kinda meant to be the point. He's still a lost, frustrated angsty boy who's trying desperately to be something he's not - Vader - and failing at it miserably. I'm really interested to see what they do with his arc in IX.

Oh I'm very aware of Interdictor Star Destroyers, they were one of Grand Admiral Thrawn's favourite toys in the now non-canon novel sequel trilogy and the linchpin of many an exciting chapter (one of my favourite ones is Luke getting yanked out of Lightspeed in a trap, having to strategise his way out of Thrawn's trap, and then escaping in a X-Wing whose hyperdrive is completely shot in the escape and praying he can get picked up by an ally before he loses oxygen or gets picked up by the Empire.  Nothing in the sequel trilogy has been even close to as inventive as that one chapter and its cat-and-mouse lone-hero vs oppressive power igneuity).  

The problem is they aren't used or even referenced in the movies themselves.  Hell the whole slow chase sequence would have actually made sense if they had even mentioned Interdictors as preventing them (and by extension the First Order) from using Lightspeed as a means to change the dynamic of the situation.  

In fact their existence in the Star Wars canon and complete absence from TLJ is another flaw with the movie, right up there with the absence of Y-Wing bombers being replaced by cumbersome bombers that got decimated and only did their job by pure luck.  A lot of this movie felt like a rough first draft that hadn't been properly gone through by several editors and continuity consultants.  

This is actually one of the movies biggest flaws.  So many of the inconsistencies are filled in exclusively in the extra material and then ignored in the movies anyway.  I've heard that the First Order invaded all over the place and were in fact far stronger than the movies implied.  This isn't good storytelling, if you're propping up your movies after the fact then they're crap movies.  The "EU" should not exist solely to fix the movies, it is supposed to exist as an extra on the side for people that want more.  Not for the screenwriters to excuse a complete lack of any detail in the world.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Tue 15 Jan 2019 - 13:00

Ah yes. I see you have learned well from your previous posts' reception.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Tue 15 Jan 2019 - 13:10

I don't particularly like TLJ, I think it has a ton of inconsistencies and unforgivable plot holes, but I also appreciate a lot of the visuals (the salt flats are a beautiful setting for a battle) and I also appreciate its attempts at subversion and setting itself apart. The snoke fight halfway through was an excellent scene made better through its parallels to the original trilogy.

Both FA and TLJ have nothing on the original trilogy, bar their very impressive recreation of the look and sound of classic Star Wars, so they are disappointing, but I'm not gonna get hung up about it because at the end of the day its a bug dumb franchise about space wizards.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Tue 15 Jan 2019 - 16:15

Drunkalilly wrote:
Ah yes. I see you have learned well from your previous posts' reception.



All of that was me taking on board the desire for shorter posts.  It was two replies that didn't even reach the length of one of the previous essays masquerading as forum posts!

But hey, I'll take a leaf from your book.  The Last Jedi was a factually highly flawed visually impressive two-and-a-half hour defecation on a once-beloved franchise that went out of its way to deliberately throw out every single plot-thread left to it by its predecessor in a movie that basically hated the fact it was a Star Wars movie while doing nothing but repeating past story beats of the franchise far worse than previous movies did them.  

I can, of course, go into extreme detail about every one of those remarks, if you so desire.   Wink

OrangeRakoon wrote:
I don't particularly like TLJ, I think it has a ton of inconsistencies and unforgivable plot holes, but I also appreciate a lot of the visuals (the salt flats are a beautiful setting for a battle) and I also appreciate its attempts at subversion and setting itself apart. The snoke fight halfway through was an excellent scene made better through its parallels to the original trilogy.

Both FA and TLJ have nothing on the original trilogy, bar their very impressive recreation of the look and sound of classic Star Wars, so they are disappointing, but I'm not gonna get hung up about it because at the end of the day its a bug dumb franchise about space wizards.

A lot of the bizarre inconsistencies between the two movies become clear when you learn that Rian allegedly started writing TLJ before they'd even finished filming TFA.  If various people are to be believed Abrams actually had a very rough draft of a script for TLJ, and allegedly literally nothing in it made it into the movie we saw.  

There are plenty of things one could read into all of the behind-the-scenes stuff regarding TLJ, but one thing becomes very clear.  There is no overarcing outline for the trilogy, it was handed from one person to another and both authors had complete control and very very different stories they wanted to tell.  This is a very basic problem that shouldn't be occurring in such a major franchise.

Honestly it's a surprise TLJ isn't even more of a inconsistent mess

As for subversion's, I do actually like some of the concepts we saw in tlj, however like the rest of the movie they were completely botched.  Luke becoming a jaded cynical hermit who'd basically gone "flep it I'm done!" after having his life's work blow up in his face was honestly a creative take on the character, and it genuinely could have worked if his backstory had been properly fleshed out and the movie had focused more on him and less on vapid sideplots that go literally nowhere like Finn and Rose's Casino Adventures.  

The franchises simplicity is exactly why the convoluted mess that is TLJ is so frustrating.  Ah well, at least the Thrawn trilogy still exists.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Tue 15 Jan 2019 - 19:45

Athrun888 wrote:
Yet those are the two people who will be leading the First Order from here on out. Not only is this something that doesn't sell, it also makes the next movie incredibly predictable, because it's fairly obvious that the two of them are going to butt heads and destablise the First Order in ways that will allow the resistance to secure victory.

...that's not a criticism of TLJ though surely, that's a criticism of the a prospective film. If they're disappointing in Episode IX I'll slag it off then.

Athrun888 wrote:
I don't buy the poor characterisation of characters like Rey in TLJ as a male writer problem, the head of Lucasfilms right now is a woman who, as far as I can tell, is pretty big on these social trends (specifically the female power movement, to use the most polite term.  With statements like "The Force is female" I'd use far ruder ones in different company).  she is basically the Kevin Fiege of Star Wars right now.  And yet everything in TLJ was fine with her, got greenlit, and released.  

No, I think characters like Rey are a problem because people have become too spineless to give female characters realistic personalities and flaws, lest they be seen as sexist by the outrage culture on social media.  Can't have a female get into some trouble otherwise it's victimising women.  Can't have a female character have personality flaws and make mistakes that hurt others, that demonizes women.  We cannot even have characters in fictional works just being characters any more because of how hellbent society is on politicising every thing under the sun.

I did not know that about the head of Lucasfilms. I do wonder how much power someone like that has over script, but you're right, it obviously can't all be placed at the feet of men (just most of it).

However, I think what you describe is another side of the same coin: people (and I do mostly mean the male writers here) don't know how to write good flawed female characters, so if they need to try and write a decent female, they end up Mary Suing her. They swing from one extreme to the other, from Princess Peach to Samus Aran (only with dialogue, which history has shown with Samus to be a mistake).

As for being afraid of backlash, good. They'll get backlash whichever option they go for, as has been evident from TLJ: you've presumably seen that the Asian fighter pilot whose name I can't remember has been hounded off Twitter. If they're trying to fall on the right side, so they get the backlash they feel is defensible, and they tilt towards making female characters OP... It's not ideal, and they have a lot to learn still, and I do agree that there's work to be done on flawed female characters who aren't flawed in a sexist way, but at least it's not Original Trilogy Leia being paraded around in a gold bra.

Basically, they're starting to get the right idea. The execution has been lacking thus far.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Thu 17 Jan 2019 - 17:04

Yay, my browser crashed!  I had written out a reply, realised I wanted to revise about half of it, so left it for the next day.  Then the browser crashed taking the entire thing with it.  So if this post seems kind of half-assed it's because I'm trying to repeat what I'd written already from a bare memory.

Quote :
...that's not a criticism of TLJ though surely, that's a criticism of the a prospective film. If they're disappointing in Episode IX I'll slag it off then.

Oh it very much is.  TLJ is the movie that killed off the big bad in one of the biggest wastes of a character the franchise has ever seen.  So when Hux and Kylo Ren, two characters that absolutely cannot sell that they are strong enough to hold together and run a warmachine state bent on galactic conquest, are replacing the only villain in the trilogy with the screen-presence to sell his status as a galactic threat because eisode 8 chose to kill off its main villain because subversions then any issues episode 9 runs in to in that regard are episode 8's fault.

Remember that episode 8 is the movie that spent its entire duration making Hux, who in the force awakens was portrayed as a young Tarkin-esque figure with the presumed military mind and ruthless psychopathy to match, out to be a complete military moron.  I'm not going to detail why, my original posts went into it in extreme detail, but he as of this movie is nothing more than a joke of a character.  

As for Kylo Ren, he cannot carry the torch of main villain.  His role is best as a lackey for the big bad.  In that role he is an excellent character.  Outside that role?  Unless episode 9 skips a ton of character development (which would be a flaw in its own right) he will falter as a main villain.  

Kylo Ren was never supposed to be the big bad.  He finds himself in that position because Rian decided to throw literally every dangling plot thread from the first movie in the bin.  

-Who are Rey's parents?  Nobodies apparently.

-Why is Rey better at using the Force after being aware of it for a day than people who dedicated decades to practicing it?  She just is.  

-Who is Snoke?  What are his motivations?  How did this clearly very powerful and old Dark Side user not turn up during the reign of the Sith that ended only 30 years ago?  Is he related to Palpatine?  Who cares, he's dead!  

-How did the remnants of the Empire get to the point where the entire first trilogy was basically invalidated?  TFA didn't answer this so Rian doesn't feel the need to either!

-How did the character who believed he could turn the most evil mass murderer in the galaxy good again become so disillusioned that he'd try to murder an as-yet innocent child in his sleep?  And why was his response to not decide to clean up his mess as the only person powerful enough to do so, but instead rot away in the middle of nowhere but leave a special map to his location when he apparently just wants to die on his own?  Rian doesn't know, that's for sure.  

Snoke, along with several other elements, was being set up.  He was thrown in the bin.  Now we have two characters that were never designed to play the role of main villains.  This is not how you tell a story.  

Quote :
I did not know that about the head of Lucasfilms. I do wonder how much power someone like that has over script, but you're right, it obviously can't all be placed at the feet of men (just most of it).

However, I think what you describe is another side of the same coin: people (and I do mostly mean the male writers here) don't know how to write good flawed female characters, so if they need to try and write a decent female, they end up Mary Suing her. They swing from one extreme to the other, from Princess Peach to Samus Aran (only with dialogue, which history has shown with Samus to be a mistake).

As for being afraid of backlash, good. They'll get backlash whichever option they go for, as has been evident from TLJ: you've presumably seen that the Asian fighter pilot whose name I can't remember has been hounded off Twitter. If they're trying to fall on the right side, so they get the backlash they feel is defensible, and they tilt towards making female characters OP... It's not ideal, and they have a lot to learn still, and I do agree that there's work to be done on flawed female characters who aren't flawed in a sexist way, but at least it's not Original Trilogy Leia being paraded around in a gold bra.

Basically, they're starting to get the right idea. The execution has been lacking thus far.

I couldn't disagree more about them getting the right idea.  The modern trends are nothing more than pandering to social media outrage culture, and the results are characters even more vapid than the archetypes they want to kill.  The 80's and 90's was far more progressive in terms of characterising leading ladies than the movies of today, especially in sci-fi.  In the last three to four years we have actually seen the quality of female characters regress in pop culture.  

I also feel the concept that men cannot write good female characters is a myth from a long-past era.  There are loads of examples of well-written females, including some in mainstream entertainment.  The pieces of media that are failing are the very ones trying to "fix" a problem that simply does not exist.  Male authors capable of writing believable strong female characters exist aplenty, they just aren't being hired for Star Wars (or any of the other big pop culture movies).  Probably because they'd actually give Rey some flaws as a person for her to grow and overcome.  

You bring up Leia, yet you do her a disservice.  One or two scenes that were capped off with her strangling her captor to death in a situation the story itself condemned vs an entire trilogy that showed Leia was just as important as any of the other side-characters.  The average female character we get now can only look at OT Leia and weep at what they can never be no matter how hard they try.  

As for Rose Tiko, I having nothing but condemnation for harassment and bullying.  With that said it is the regrettable outcome when one is the actor for what is the most loathed character in Star Wars.  Make no mistake Rose Tiko being an outright insultingly bad character in what was already a controversial movie is the main reason for those events transpiring.  That and twitter being a cesspit that rivals the youtube comment section in cancerous substance.

Kathleen Kennedy had complete control in overseeing and directing the Star Wars franchise, like how Kevin Feige has control over the MCU.  She was the head of Lucasfilms, and we all know how Disney works.  It lets its subsidiaries do what they please so long as they bring in the big bucks.  She is rumoured to have recently lost most of her power though (indeed she hasn't been seen in a public capacity since just after Solo flopped), Disney is fed up with the Star Wars franchise going down the toilet in sales.  

As for backlashes, well.  I'll just point out that the backlash to social ideologies taking over the democrats played a not-insignificant role in seeing Trump elected.  Letting the pendulum swing to extremes results in very dangerous outcomes as more and more radical ideologies start to take prominence and power on both sides.  

But more relevant to Star Wars is the fact that right now they're killing the franchise.  And that's not just hyperbole, financial reports out just in the last few days shows that Star Wars is losing ground in merch sales, which is at a all-time low.  Which means kids aren't interested in Marey Sue and co.  One backlash would have been relatively impotent anger on twitter.  The other, the backlash that is happening over The Last Jedi, is killing Star Wars financially.  And speaking as someone who likes Star Wars I'd rather it didn't die, not because of this at any rate.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Thu 17 Jan 2019 - 17:16

I watched Pokémon the Movie: I Choose You! on Netflix which for a long time pokemon fan has a lot of nostalgia, also I'm not crying your crying over butterfree.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   Thu 17 Jan 2019 - 18:51

Athrun... you've defeated me.  I give.  It's a definite improvement from the Seven Deadly Posts, but you still need to work on your summarising. Maybe the original lost version was more concise?  Either way, I feel bad about it, but I can't keep responding. Sorry pal.


Mas: that chuffing song. DAMN YOU! I'm not sure if it's genuinely still sad or nostalgia any more, but



every time.
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PostSubject: Re: Movies 2: Electric Boogaloo   

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