The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (the 2010s-Defining Game currently being discussed)

Just thinking about it after your post Balla, Nintendo systems this decade have lacked Action RPGs or Western RPGs beyond Mass Effect 3, Dark Souls and Skyrim.

That could see Outer Worlds doing real well on Switch plus it's sort of colourful compared to the others.

It is, and I am up for throttling my hatred of choice systems and giving it a go (backlog permitting).  I think two of those games you suggested suffered too: ME3 from ME1&2 not being on Switch (we have The Witcher 3 now, of course, which seems to have shrugged off similar concerns), and Dark Souls got a lousy port.

Also, thread title changed because Jay is a dobber and forgot.

Balla wrote:

and Dark Souls got a lousy port.

In some aspect maybe but it's not as lousy as you'd think just a different version despite it having the same remastered name.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-dark-souls-remastered-switch-analysis

Jas posting links to Digital Foundry stuff? I never thought I'd see the day...

What's your favourite RPG of the decade Jas? I mean, I know it's Monster Hunter or Souls, but do you count Souls? Which Monster Hunter stands head and shoulders about the rest? etc. etc.

Why wouldn't you count Souls, it's no other genre unless Souls-like is now it's own thing.

I do wonder because of Dark Souls on Switch being called remastered and isn't is why Ni No Kuni isn't called a remaster on Switch as both Namco, thinking did they have complaints etc

Balladeer wrote:

Jas posting links to Digital Foundry stuff? I never thought I'd see the day...

What's your favourite RPG of the decade Jas?  I mean, I know it's Monster Hunter or Souls, but do you count Souls?  Which Monster Hunter stands head and shoulders about the rest?  etc. etc.

Haha yeah, you're right I don't normally like digital foundry stuff but the particular topic of that specific port was interesting. (my eyes still glazed over at points though, natch)

Yep you'd be mad not to count Dark Souls as an RPG, it's full of classic RPG tropes with the two most obvious ones being a class system for the character you create then level up and the fact you basically go dungeon crawling to slay giant bosses. I'm going to throw Bloodborne in here as well just to make the choice between MH & Dark Souls even more impossible, I honestly can't pick one as I love each one for lots of different reasons and if you were to ask me on a different day I'd be picking based on my mood for that day plus I don't think I have to go over these in more detail, do I?

Balla wrote:

Which Monster Hunter stands head and shoulders about the rest?

Another impossible question to answer as I have 3 to pick from.

MH Tri - This sneaks in as the European release was in 2010 & was the first I played of the series, so it'll always hold a certain sentimental value and until recently was the one I put the most hours into.    

MH4U - I said this was the almost perfect MH at the time, also the first in the series that showed that they could weave a more interesting story without compromising that core gameplay. If this wasn't 3DS only it would have topped my MH tri play time very easily.  

MH World/Iceborne -  I think my play time will say it all as it now sits at over a thousand hours.

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The Witcher 3 also deserves a shout here as I was pleasantly surprised by how it gripped me when I played it earlier this year.

Off the top of my head:

Xenoblade Chronicles
Mass Effects 2&3
Witcher III
Dark Souls (&2)
Dragon Age Origins

I don't tend to count Pokemon and Monster Hunter as RPGs. I also don't care whether or not someone else does, so please don't reply at this time.

You can't say that as all I can think now is

Good detailed talk from Jas. I've obviously never played a Soulslike, so can't really comment: only thing was I thought it was basically a 3D Metroidvania?

Also you made me choose between SM64 and SMS so CHOOOOOOOOSE

Drunkalilly wrote:

I don't tend to count Pokemon and Monster Hunter as RPGs. I also don't care whether or not someone else does, so please don't reply at this time.

(replies)

But seriously though: Pokémon? It's the most RPG franchise I play! What is it, if not RPGs?

I did ask why but do you remember my video a few years UKIE said Persona 5 was first RPG to be UK number 1 in about 20 years, which I got clarification which they forgot Pokémon was a RPG as it's bigger than the genre.

That much the Souls games are they now Souls-like, same could be said for Zelda as you often see Zelda-like touted maybe Pokémon is the monster catching genre.

New genres start somewhere look at Metroidvania. Personally always thought as Pokémon as my first RPG and got myself (think others) into the likes of Final Fantasy.

Balladeer wrote:

dobber

Ho. I don't cut about using your patter, like 'cockwomble' and 'wankpuffin'. 

Anyway, best RPG was Pokemon Sun/Moon, NEEEEEEEEEXXXXXXTTTTT!!!!!

Uuurgh fine. This is gonna be tedious so you have nobody to blame but yourself.

Souls isn't really a metroidvania because usually, apart from one or two bottlenecks, the thing stopping you from going a certain direction is higher level enemies, not needing an item or something. There's a lotof exploration and finding shortcuts, especially in the exquisitely designed map of the original Dark Souls. There is a lot of character customisation, through stats and levelling as well as armour and weapon customisation, but the combat model is robust enough that people do complete the game at level 1. RPG elements, sure, but a very different game. The closest analogue is Zelda II.

Monster Hunter. Level-based action game with no character levelling- stats all come from the equipment which you make from monsters in the very satisfying gameplay loop. I genuinely don't understand people calling this one an RPG.

And Pokemon. Let's get into it. It has turn based gameplay and stuff which is very RPG, although it makes sense in a way many RPGs dont because its you leading your team of monsters. It has a huge amount of player expression and a barebones story, so it doesnt really involve playing a role.
Ultimately, though, all of that is moot. The reason I dont count Pokemon is because if I did, then my top 5, top 10, top 25 RPGs would pretty much all be Pokemon games. I dont care about genres and neither should you. I just made arbitrary choices to compartmentalise my feelings and keep the conversation interesting, but fine lets concentrate on the most boring part.

Drunkalilly wrote:

Uuurgh fine. This is gonna be tedious so you have nobody to blame but yourself.

(genuinely finds resulting post interesting)

I would... having never played Zelda II, from what I know of Zelda II, call Zelda II an RPG. So that's the Souls series pigeonSouled for me I guess. As for your Pokémon reasoning, stuff it: that makes it sound more RPG for me. RPGs either cast you in a role or, as with for example Baldur's Gate and everything based on tabletops as a basis (I know I repeated myself sh), allows you to carve a role for yourself. It feels like you agree that that's what playing as a trainer allows you to do. The Pokémon you keep reflect your personality, after all!

The bottom line for me regarding 'true' RPGs is, does The Lady enjoy playing them because they're basically extensions of the tabletop stuff she enjoys without me, leaving me with intense bitterness regarding the people she gets to experience that with? The answer is an emphatic yes in the case of Pokémon. Then maybe sobbing. But we're talking about you, so - whatever works!

What you're saying about Pokémon is why I've found it to be like my first RPG due to the lack of story, easier party management which the Pokémon basically are instead of a Mage or whatnot.

Then when you want a more challenging game you go to Final Fantasy, well that's how found it.

We've said before and during these genre chat is silly but that's what Jay wanted to do next.

I would have liked to seen the current music thing in here, so I can talk Journey, Death Stranding, Persona 5 etc

Best Console - PS4, not for being a good console, but the quantity of available bangers win out
Best Year - 2010, a year of bangers
Best Platformer - (2D) Rayman Legends (3D) Mario Galaxy 2
Best Shooter - Titanfall 2 for raw single player good times and some solid multiplayer, Destiny 2 for that sweet longevity
Best RPG - The Witcher 3, possibly my favourite game of all time

Andyman's back and having wrong opinions about games again. All is as it should be.

I'd say that's an agreeable bunch of games, myself

Aye, it just seems like Balla missed saying Andy was wrong.

Not even I can give Andy grief for those picks- all very solid.

To be honest I just based it on the first answer and none of them being the same as mine. Rayman Legends is the only other one that sticks out for me - I thought it was good, great even, but that it seemed to be given more kudos than that everywhere else and I couldn't quite work out why. If it'd had an actually satisfying ending then maybe I'd have thought differently.

DID SOMEBODY ASK ABOUT BEST GENRE RPGS?

Right, there's a bit to go over on this subject for me, given I basically only play this genre and all that.  So this post is goin to have segments.  First I'll go over my top game from each sub-genre (strategy > action > turn-based.  In that order).  Then I'm going to talk about a few games that got omitted, why they were omitted, and so on and so forth.  So.  

STRATEGY RPG - Fire Emblem Conquest

Lets get the obvious out of the way.  This games story is aaaaaawful.  Like on a scale ranging between Stormlight Archive (the most awesome thing to ever awesome.  Ever.) to The Last Jedi (fraaaaanchise kiiiiilllllleeeer) this'd be beneath TLJ.  It's THAT bad.  Y'all know how much I can talk about everything wrong with that movie, well know this.  The same applies to Fates story.  

But the gameplay.  Oh lawdy the gameplay is strategy-rpg heaven.  The map designs are just fantastic, filled with gimmicks that really test your ability to play the game.  The battle system, the bread-and-butter that makes Fire Emblem fun, is also expanded.  The game's mechanics are deep enough that you can play on easy and be fine.  Or you can play on Lunatic and be forced to actually use every tool the game gives you.

And unlike Three Houses Conquest was actually balanced.  

ACTION RPG - Ys The Oath in Felghana

Betcha thought I was going to put Nier here!  But nope, it's PSP/PC gem Ys Felghana.  The story ain't nothing to write home about.  But with Ys it's always about the insane and frantic gameplay.  Hack'n'slash is always at its best when it's all about dodging/blocking correctly, and Felghana is all about punishing bosses at the right time and getting genuinely punished if you mess up.  

Frantic action and head-banging music, everything you could want in a  game really.  

TURN-BASED RPG - Persona 5

Y'all knew this was coming I'm sure.  Stylish as all hell, fun to play, and a pretty good story that hits all the spots you want from a JRPG and culminates in a lovely scathing assessment of the human condition.  I'll admit the story didn't grab me as much as Persona 3, but it was a good blend of it and 4 minus the issues 4 had.  

THE DROP-OUTS

This section has three games that most will expect me to rave about but fail out due to reasons I will now detail.  Lets start with the Nintendo RPGs!

Xenoblade

On paper this game should be everything I want in a game.  Stunning visuals, epic story, and fun battle system.  And for the first half of the game it was.  But then THAT part of the plot happens.  

Shulk's entire revenge-quest gets thrown out the window for the stupidest saint-complex heel-turn I've ever seen.  Metal Face is a major villain for the first half of the game, completely ruthless and irredeemable.  He gets even worse once he actively starts interacting with the cast, proving himself to be a rabid dog bent on genocide for the humans.  

So what does Shulk do out of nowhere when the entire quest up to that point had been tracking him down and killing him?  Sparing him.  Because suddenly killing is oh so wrong.  

It's the biggest load of horseshit.  But the scene gets even worse, because Shulk even goes so far as to stand in the way of someone else who moves in after Shulk's change of heart.

Now lets get why this is an issue (beyond it being extremely sanctimonious and annoying).  Metal Face had been established as a murdering psychopathic killer.  His goal was literally to wipe out humanity and basically get off on it.  He's too powerful to detain, and there is no redemption or sanctity in his life.  

Yet the plot chooses HIM to be all "see killing is wrong!"  And yet the story can't even keep to its own moral lesson, because literally as soon as Shulk talks down the other character from kill Metal Face an accident happens and Metal Face falls to his doom.  

It's just a complete and absolute mess, and it permanently took me out of the story.  Suspension of disbelief is like trust.  Once it's broken it's almost impossible to repair.  

Still gonna buy and play the remaster tho.  Don't misinterpret this scathing criticism to mean I hate Xenoblade or something.  I hate that section with a passion, and it damaged my emotional investment.  But unlike the next two games I still liked it.

Xenoblade X

Y'all love the "it was all a dream!" copout cliche right?  Well, that's essentially what this game pulls in a post-credit scene.  

The entire story revolves around the remnants of the human race colonising a new planet after being driven out (and earth destroyed) by aliens.  Aliens that had now tracked them to the new planet.  The story is all about this struggle, and in the finale it boils down to both parties searching for a muguffin that, if destroyed, will kill all remaining humans.  

JK SIKE TURNS OUT IT WAS DESTROYED THE ENTIRE STORY, DIDN'T EVEN SURVIVE PLANETFALL, HOPE YOU ENJOY THE ENTIRE CONFLICT BEING FOR NOTHING!

I liked the gameplay.  And despite the story ending I don't regret the, what, 200 or so hours I sunk into the game?  But that stunt right there, the stupid sequel-tease we're never going to get resolved, a tease that literally undermines the entire story, is why this game will never ever enter a best-of list.  And indeed will always have a bit of my contempt.  

Persona 4

Do you like overt emotional manipulation where the game blatantly tries to get you angry to make a bad choice and then shows it had no consequence?  Well I've got just the game for you!

I'm going to avoid going into explicit detail here, everyone whose played the game will know what I'm talking about anyway.

So.  It's the end of what I suppose you would call the second act.  Tragedy has struck the main cast, someone they care about is on deaths doorstep.  Emotions run high.  And you have to either decide someone at fault is the culprit of the murder mystery or not.  

The game then "kills" the character on deaths doorstep to try and get you, the player, to feel so engraged that you will make the wrong choice and get the bad ending.  

Oh, silly you, did you think the character was dead?  Nonono!  If you pick the right choice the character literally comes back to life for no fucking god damned reason beyond "MIRACLES!"  

I almost quit the game right then and there.  All that emotional drama and investment and the game literally spat on it.  Oh silly player, you thought there could be consequences and stakes in this story!  

What an absolute waste of my time.  That's what I was thinking after that "twist".  *Spits on ground*  Only way it could've been worse is if they'd time-travelled to prevent the death.  F***ing hate that gimmick (looking at you Endgame).  

And there you have it, my top RPG's of the decade and the runners-up that tripped onto their own swords on the way.

Persona 4 wasn't this decade unless you go for Golden a enhanced re-release which has your favourite girl in it.

Least we know what might be the 20's best RPG, Persona 5 Royal.

It's Fallout: New Vegas and it's not even close

JRPGs I'm going with The Last Story, Ever Oasis, Monster Hunter Stories and Solatorobo: Red the Hunter. Fight me

I'm surprised at the relative lack of chat around Persona 5. I can't see past that as the best JRPG around - effortlessly cool and somehow managed to make 100 hours fly past in a blink of an eye. And that soundtrack!

For Western RPGs, I've not played The Witcher 3, but I did bloody love Fallout New Vegas. The differing storylines, the faction system coupled with that moreish Fallout combat... great game!

Think all that have played Persona 5 have brought up in a positive light, just only a few have played it and can't seem to get Balla who would love it to turn his PS3 on (Plus it's now a tad expensive on PS3 physical) even though be like in his Top 25 or whatever games.

After playing Outer Worlds, I am a tad tempted to go back and play NV, just VATS is muh and I've got a big backlog.