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 The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)

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Balladeer
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyWed 30 Oct 2019 - 19:59

I chuckled, darn it.  RIGHT.  Personal opinions and subjectivity coming up.


The Decade Platforming Died, and Came Back to Life

And by 'platforming' I'm going to focus on Mario, because that's where it all began and that, as a Nintendonly gamer, remains the epicentre of my platforming world.  

Before this decade, Super Mario World was my favourite 2D platformer and Super Mario 64 was my favourite 3D one.  There was absolutely no contest regarding the latter.  This was even true when Super Mario Galaxy came out, wowing everybody else and leaving me cold at the lack of exploration.  It was what I like to call a 'spectacle platformer', ruled by set-pieces rather than discovery.  While that's okay, it just wasn't my thing so much.

The decade started bloody well for all that.  On the 3D platformer front, 2010 gave us Super Mario Galaxy 2.  I had no doubt over what was coming given the title, and so wasn't disappointed at the spectacle platformer it was.  It's still up on my list of Top 25 Games Ever, as is Kirby's Epic Yarn, a February 2011 release back when Nintendo released big new games in February.  It was, to my mind, the last truly excellent Kirby game: the ease didn't matter because it oozed charm from its yarny pores.  (Q: Does Kirby have pores?  State your working.)

Also it just missed out on New Super Mario Bros. Wii.  Good job, early 2010s.

Unfortunately the plumber then took a tumble downhill.  To focus on the less controversial 2D Mario first, New Super Mario Bros. 2 came out in 2012, with its 'big new idea' being 'lots of coins'.  Completely original for the series, yes sir.  At this point I believe that people thought the NSMB brand was starting to go a bit far, so what did Nintendo do?  Released New Super Mario Bros. U as, essentially, the killer app. launching their biggest flop of the decade.  Then doubled down with DLC.  And ported it to Switch.  

NSMBU was, in my opinion, the best game in the NSMB series.  That didn't mean it wasn't a disappointment.  On the machine where Rayman got good (Origins' level design and aesthetics put me off and I will die on this very small molehill), Donkey Kong continued to raise the bar despite an underwhelming reveal because this was what nobody had hoped that Retro was working on, and even Kirby tried to bring his more interesting handheld adventures to the bigger screen, Mario was content to pedal in place.

Also we had Super Mario Run.

It's almost like Nintendo themselves decided that they didn't really know what to 2D Mario, and thought they may as well turn it over to fans.  We haven't had a new 2D Mario game on a Nintendo machine since 2012: instead we've had two (very good by most accounts) Mario Maker games.  2D Mario is at an impasse, and has seemed to take a couple of heroes with him.  While Kirby produced a couple of decent handheld offerings, they never reached KEY levels, and his home console games didn't surpass 'cheery but average' in the press.  Yoshi trod water, Woolly World's beauty let down by iffy level design and the sheer existence of New Island.  Wario was MIA.  Chibi-Robo and Pikmin made mistaken forays into the genre.  Only Donkey Kong and (with one game I maintain, one game) Rayman kept Nintendo-machine 2D platformers alive and kicking.  There were lots of the bastards kicking about still, but most of them didn't seem to be that great.  I began to tire of the entire genre.

It was left to the indie scene to invigorate the genre in the late 2010s, and this was something they could do.  2D platformers are one of the easier genres to bedroom-code, I'd imagine, and we've had them in droves; but that means the top tier have been very good.  They mostly get classed under the more ambiguous 'puzzle-platformer' genre, though; and with games like Super Meat Boy originally missing Nintendo, Shovel Knight just not working for me like it did everybody else, and Jools Whatsham's output getting critical acclaim Rolling Eyes , they didn't initially inspire me much.  Then 2018 happened, and brought the game that would get me looking at 2D platformers all over again.

That's 2D: what about 3D?  Truth be told, it seemed to spend most of the decade incognito.

To go back to Mario for a bit, we got Super Mario 3D Land, a very 2D 3D platformer.  It did away with both exploration and spectacle, relying solely on solid level design to see itself through, and bringing back 2D Mario conventions like (uuuuuuuurgh) the time limit.  This worked, to an extent; and it was understandable, to an extent.  SM64 hadn't worked so well on DS because it really required another set of buttons or a stick to control the camera (and because of misguided additions), so the technical limitations of the machine made the style understandable.  3D World had no such excuses.  It was a good game, but what it represented was bad.  At the time, it seemed to signal the nail in the coffin of 'proper' 3D Mario to a disconsolate Balla.

There didn't seem to be many signs of life elsewhere either.  The 3D revolution was over a decade ago, and still nobody but Nintendo had really got the camera right.  Rare had given up, Rayman was going back to 2D...  It was just easier to make 2D platformers, and if that differential was stark for your average developer it was no doubt more so for indies.  

Odd though it seems to say it today, when the original was a bit of a disappointment and the 2D sequel by all accounts much better, it feels like it was Yooka-Laylee's Kickstarter that injected some life back into the genre.  Following on from that we had A Hat in Time (soon my pretty, soon...), and even what felt like a revival in the mascot platformer with Super Lucky's Tale.  I feel like there have been others too that I can't recall.  Aaaaaaaand finally, finally, Nintendo got back on board to show people how it was done.  Disconsolate Balla saw the initial snippet of Super Mario Odyssey, in the 'Karen's rooftop party' Switch reveal, and imagined SM3DW2.  Jubilant Balla picked it up in late 2017 and proclaimed it the second-best game of all time.

So!  That's my story of the 2010s, the decade that made me bored of 2D platformers and then made me excited for them again, the decade that forgot the 3D platformer and then brought it back in a big way.  To finish off, my top five platformers of the decade (also I think the top four are my top four of all time) and my most disappointing five:

Top:
5. Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
4. Kirby's Epic Yarn
3. Super Mario Galaxy 2
2. Celeste
1. Super Mario Odyssey

Bleah:
5. Super Mario 3D World (an 8/10 in retrospect, but still grossly disappointing at the time)
4. Kirby and the Rainbow Paintbrush
3. Rayman Origins
2. New Super Mario Bros. 2
1. Mutant Mudds.  Remember when everyone loved Mutant Mudds?  Christ.
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Kriken
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyThu 31 Oct 2019 - 0:30

Not played Celeste yet. I own it and I'm sure I'd regard it very highly, but there we go.

Also do want to give Rayman Origins - which I actually like the look of - and Tropical Freeze a go, but sort of want to go back to Returns and finish off that first.

3D

Galaxy 2 is great. One of my favourite Mario games generally, though I fall into the category of people who were a tad underwhelmed by it because of its similarities to the first game. The levels and design were entirely new and original of course, but because I played 1 it lacked a certain freshness and didn't have quite the same impact. The lack of big FMVs didn't help the feeling it was a somewhat lower budget expansion (albeit one with the same number of objectives). Love both Galaxy games all the same.

The other big one that stands out in my mind is A Hat in Time, which I haven't even gotten close to 100%-ing yet, but as a relatively short and sweet experience it was super enjoyable. Just oozes charm and is so nice to control. It nostalgically draws from early 2000s platformers but also adds enough to feel like its own thing entirely.

Then there is Mario Oddysey, which I found both very welcome but also a tad disappointing. At times I've considered 3D Mario to be my favourite series of games, and it was good to see another one after they decided not to have a proper one on the Wii U.

I guess 3D World is a competent enough game but it clearly just was not it. Then Oddysey was announced and it looked amazing, and up until (and including) the Metro Kingdom I was having a blast. However, a fatigue started to set in during the seaside kingdom and honestly I started to take a fairly quick route through the later kingdoms - and the game let me; I could have skipped them almost entirely if I wanted to since I had enough moons. It felt kind of off.

I guess I felt the game lacked a sort of cohesiveness and I got sort of burned out on trying to collect everything, which was enjoyable at first. A lot of the little challenges just didn't seem fun, whereas in previous games I enjoyed getting most stars/shines (although there are some terrible Shines in Sunshine) and they fit a neat list of other objectives in a level. Each level felt like just the right length.

But what I did like from it, I liked a lot, so I'm glad it exists.

2D

Shovel Knight
- excellent game. I remember my first thought being that Shovel Knight was so slow, but you learn to get a good pace from this game, bouncing on enemies with the shovel. I remember really liking the writing and the music. Should get around to playing the other campaigns at some point.

Sonic Mania - my first thought on this was that it's pretty decent, but when I later played the original games on the Mega Drive I went back to it and gained a greater appreciation for it. The classic Sonic games are all great but this one has a particularly nice flow to it and remixes those original levels in some pleasant ways. It is mostly remade levels, but there are original ones too which are just as good. The drop dash too is just, well, a great addition and feels like a natural evolution on the classic series in terms of mechanics, giving you another option of maintaining speed.

And the usually flawed special stages you find in Sonic games are actually pretty much perfect in this one. Like they took Sonic R-inspired levels and made them fast and fun to play. Wow.
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Drunkalilly
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptySat 2 Nov 2019 - 0:38

I've enjoyed all the NSMB games. NSMBU in particular was legit really good. I liked Super Mario Run, it deserved better quite frankly. It was a fun game and it was released with an honest, ethical business model . . . which did really poorly so now Nintendo's online stuff is leaning into the free-to-play garbage.

There have been great indies- I really like Shovel Knight but I didn't like the minute-to-minute platforming as much as some of the others here. And of course there are the metroidvanias, some of which have great platforming but they're a bit of their own thing.

As for 3D Platformers, only Mario has ever been good and that didn't change this decade.

5: Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
The first was a surprise. This was a revelation.
4: Super Mario 3D World
Good, clean fun with that classic Mario feeing of every level being different.
3: Celeste
Perfect 2D platforming.
2: Super Mario Galaxy 2
Glorious stuff, but a little less of a complete package thant the predecessor.
1: Super Mario Odyssey
Perfect 3D platforming.

Hyperboledeer wrote:
The Decade Platforming Died, and Came Back to Life

The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 Giphy
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptySat 2 Nov 2019 - 10:18

I reckon Jay might argue against only Mario being good for 3D platformers with things like Jak but we've not had a new one since the PS2.

I wonder if that's the sort of thing to be the next Crash or Spyro to get a graphical remake.
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Balladeer
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptySat 2 Nov 2019 - 12:22

Drunkalilly wrote:
Hyperboledeer wrote:
The Decade Platforming Died, and Came Back to Life

Rolling Eyes .gif

Thought you might appreciate it. Super Mario Run is almost certainly better than I give it credit for being, but it really did disappear without trace because of the whole mobile 'thing'. I would struggle to call any NSMBs 'good' apart from U though, and by that point the franchise was tired. All that said, I appreciate that top five a lot!

Kriken wrote:
Not played Celeste yet. I own it and I'm sure I'd regard it very highly, but there we go.

I'm not going to do my usual Celeste sales pitch. I'm just going to say that after the initial burst of enthusiasm on this forum, we've had a lot of people picking it up in dribs and drabs. Most of them have gone in thinking we've massively oversold it. Only Mas has come out thinking the same way.

As for the Odyssey comments... I dunno, the mix and match can make the worlds feel disparate, but it's also part of the game's charm. There are some tasks that feel a little 'bitty' though, but there are also a load of great ones.
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The_Jaster
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptySat 2 Nov 2019 - 12:48

Actually I'm going to defend Super Mario 3D Land a little from what Balla has said above because I think it was an excellent game & I think you are being extremely harsh due to a 3D Mario hangup you seem to have.

Balla wrote:
It was a good game, but what it represented was bad.


Like this bit, how was what it represented bad? The idea was clear from the get go that it was to be a classic 2D Mario feeling but in 3D, and for me before Mario 64 showed up this was always how I imagined a 3D Mario game would be and it was great to see that finally happen. I loved having a dash button again, the levels were full of cool little ideas/designs, the 3D depth effect was actually useful in judging the distance of your jumps so frustration was kept really low & for me it easily sits alongside the best Mario platformers.
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Jimbob
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptySun 3 Nov 2019 - 16:30

I don't have the ability to really concentrate on this properly, but basically, from yay to nay, based on what you guys have written above:

  • the Mario games, both 2D/3D, have basically kept platforming going - including 3D Land and World thankyouverymuch (maybe 2 was a bit crap)
  • Shovel Knight is the way to do retro right
  • A Hat in Time has been a recent joy as the Krikster says (as a 50/50 split between Banjo and Mario Galaxy)
  • I'm really looking forward to Super Lucky's Tale on Switch
  • Donkey Kong Country Returns Tropical Freeze was ace, and freed from the motion control nonsense
  • Yoshi and Kirby's fluffy games were alright
  • Sonic Mania seems OK so far but still does things that put Sonic behind Mario
  • Yooka-Laylee was disappointing
  • I don't get why people like RayMan
  • Journey is really great but is only a platformer in the same way Tetris is (in that some things are higher up than others)
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptySun 3 Nov 2019 - 16:55

I didn't count Journey properly in my Top 5 but again not sure what genre you'd put in as like Wikipedia etc has it as indie adventure, and doubt Jay will be doing indie adventure week.

So not sure when I would have the opportunity to bring it up in these genre discussions.
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Balladeer
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptySun 3 Nov 2019 - 19:51

The_Jaster wrote:
Actually I'm going to defend Super Mario 3D Land a little from what Balla has said above because I think it was an excellent game & I think you are being extremely harsh due to a 3D Mario hangup you seem to have.

Well I think you're being extremely harsh to call it a hangup! So there. Tongue

The_Jaster wrote:
...for me before Mario 64 showed up this was always how I imagined a 3D Mario game would be and it was great to see that finally happen.

This is probably the main difference isn't it?  SM64 was my first 3D Mario and set the benchmark for how all 3D Marios should be for me.  The same's not true for you.  If they'd brought SM3DW out as the console's 2D Mario and then had another 3D one we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The_Jaster wrote:
I loved having a dash button again...

Needing a dash button on a system where you have an analogue stick suggests an error in the original movement pacing.

The_Jaster wrote:
...the levels were full of cool little ideas/designs...

Agreed, but - maybe I'm being greedy, but isn't that the baseline for a 3D Mario?  Great level design.  What else does it have?  SM64 and SMO have exploration, SMG and SMG2 have spectacle, SMS has... FLUDD? but it's also really charming with the whole tropical vibe and has some exploration with the level structure and the blue coins.  The SM3Ds had solid level design and will therefore be good games, but that's all they had and for me that's not enough I'm afraid.  It's certainly not enough when two 2.5D games come in a row and suggest that's 3D Mario's new direction for good now.  It's like if they made Dark Souls 4 and it had turn-based combat, and then next generation they released 5 and that also had turn-based combat.  The games might still be great and full of atmosphere: you'd still be a bit concerned.

The_Jaster wrote:
...the 3D depth effect was actually useful in judging the distance of your jumps so frustration was kept really low...

Agreed here, that was good.  SM3DL had one of the best uses of 3D on the system.

The_Jaster wrote:
...for me it easily sits alongside the best Mario platformers.

Fair enough, that's for you.  For me, SMO > SMG2 > SMG1 > SM64/SMS (don't ask me to choose) >> SM3DW > SM3DL, with the 2D platformers all falling somewhere underneath SM3DW.  So it's technically true, but... kinda by default.
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Drunkalilly
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptySun 3 Nov 2019 - 23:02

All Marios are good Marios! This is like when I got annoyed at people not loving Breath of the Wild "enough". Or when the liberal discourse gets all wrapped up in finding the small flaws in one anoher's politics so they never actually progress. Yeah, this guy wants universal healthcare, but does he want universal healthcare and exploration-based levels?

And I'd say the SM3Ds' "thing" was their 3D-ifying of 2D mario tropes. That might not be as appealing to you as exploration or space spectacle, but don't pretend it didn't exist and have value for a lot of people.
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The_Jaster
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyMon 4 Nov 2019 - 3:00

Balla wrote:
This is probably the main difference isn't it?  SM64 was my first 3D Mario and set the benchmark for how all 3D Marios should be for me.  The same's not true for you.  If they'd brought SM3DW out as the console's 2D Mario and then had another 3D one we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I'm probably misreading this but wasn't everyone's (at least on this forum) first 3D Mario SM64?

Anyhow, I think some of my wording was poor in my last post there especially the "3d mario hangup" part, basically what I was getting at is even though they are all Mario platformers I wouldn't directly compare them to each other as they all aim to do very different things in their designs.  

Balla wrote:
Agreed, but - maybe I'm being greedy, but isn't that the baseline for a 3D Mario?  Great level design.  What else does it have?  SM64 and SMO have exploration, SMG and SMG2 have spectacle, SMS has... FLUDD? but it's also really charming with the whole tropical vibe and has some exploration with the level structure and the blue coins.  The SM3Ds had solid level design and will therefore be good games, but that's all they had and for me that's not enough I'm afraid.  It's certainly not enough when two 2.5D games come in a row and suggest that's 3D Mario's new direction for good now.  It's like if they made Dark Souls 4 and it had turn-based combat, and then next generation they released 5 and that also had turn-based combat.  The games might still be great and full of atmosphere: you'd still be a bit concerned.

I don't think you need anything more than great level design to have a top tier Mario platformer. Now, if Dark souls 4 & 5 went with turned-based combat would I be concerned? I'd be quite shocked at a reveal like that but after I settled down I don't think I would be concerned as I'd just likely not play them as it's in a genre I don't particularly enjoy. But for the sake of this hypothetical example let's say I did play it I know for a fact I wouldn't be directly comparing it to DaS 1-3 as it'd be totally unfair.

Balla wrote:
Fair enough, that's for you.  For me, SMO > SMG2 > SMG1 > SM64/SMS (don't ask me to choose) >> SM3DW > SM3DL, with the 2D platformers all falling somewhere underneath SM3DW.  So it's technically true, but... kinda by default.

Ahh see this how you are getting yourself in a comparison pickle grouping them altogether like that when it should be like this:

2D Mario games - Top tier.
Mario 3D Land & World - Top tier.  
SM64/SMS/SMG 1 & 2/SMO - Top tier.

Also I have to know what you prefer out of SM64 and Sunshine so..............now you must choose.  Razz
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyMon 4 Nov 2019 - 8:57

I believe Nintendo themselves have said it's 2D Mario, 3D exploration as they that was a big push for Odyssey, 3D style 2D games.

That we might see a Super Mario 3D Island on Switch which be part of a different group of Mario games. Anyway this is about the last decade and most of these Mario games weren't from it also not all top tier quality.
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gjones
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyMon 4 Nov 2019 - 12:32

I don't think Super Mario 3D Land should be compared to the full-blown console Marios - it's designed for short bursts of play. It's like putting Super Mario Land 2 alongside Super Mario 64. And as a portable Mario, Super Mario 3D Land is excellent. Super Mario 3D World, although I've not played it, feels like a quick fix that tried to capitalise on NSMB Wii's popular multiplayer.

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The Cappuccino Kid
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyMon 4 Nov 2019 - 20:08

It was an outstanding decade for platformers, with dozens of brilliantly designed modern classics that pushed the genre and dozens more that celebrated it's glorious past. The likes of Shovel Knight, LIMBO, Celeste and LittleBigPlanet 2 stand tall alongside the likes of Rayman Legends, Ratchet & Clank, Donkey Kong Country Returns and Kirby Triple Deluxe.

However, being completely honest, I don't think there's a conversation to be had on this topic. Sonic Mania is the decade's best 2D platformer, and Super Mario Odyssey is the decade's best 3D platformer. I just think they're so far ahead of everything else.
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OrangeRakoon
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyTue 5 Nov 2019 - 14:06

Too much Nintendo focus in the platformer space here... as expected Razz

I'm sure I'm missing some games, but here is my attempt at listing the bigger names in 3D platforming (plus Little Big Planet...) over the 2010s:

2010 - Super Mario Galaxy 2, The Sly Trilogy, Epic Mickey, Sonic Colors
2011 - Little Big Planet 2, de Blob 2, Sonic Generations
2012 - Jak and Daxter Trilogy, Ratchet & Clank Trilogy, Epic Mickey 2
2013 - Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time, Knack, Tearaway
2014 - Little Big Planet 3, Sonic Boom
2015 - Grow Home, Rare Replay, Tearaway Unfolded
2016 - Ratchet and Clank (remake), Grow Up, Mirror's Edge Catalyst
2017 - Super Mario Odyssey, Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy, Knack II, A Hat in Time, Poi, Yooka-Laylee
2018 - Spyro Reignited Trilogy, Astro Bot Rescue Mission

It has been a decade largely preoccupied with revisiting the past with HD remakes, collections and remakes aplenty. Many of those are some of the best 3D platformers ever made though, so it's far from a bad decade, objectively speaking!

2017 stands out as a year of 3D platforming revival, from both AAA and indie developers.

I'd like to highlight Grow Home and Tearaway especially though for being some of the most inventive and enjoyably different 3D platformers I've ever played. While I haven't played it, everything I hear suggest Astro Bot is similarly worthy of such praise.
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyTue 5 Nov 2019 - 21:59

OrangeRakoon wrote:
Too much Nintendo focus in the platformer space here... as expected Razz

Good.  

Honestly though I'm not sure some of those even count as platformers - I've seen The Lady playing Ratchet & Clank and it looks much more action game than platformer.  Truth be told though, I just don't know enough about Nontendo platformers.  The only one I could think of was Gravity Rush, but looking around it looks like that isn't so much a platformer anyway!

The_Jaster wrote:
I'm probably misreading this but wasn't everyone's (at least on this forum) first 3D Mario SM64?
Anyhow, I think some of my wording was poor in my last post...

Ah, mine was too!  I meant that you had an idea of what you wanted 3D Mario to be like before SM64 came along.  I didn't: SM64 formed my idea of what I wanted out of a 3D Mario, and to a certain extent anything deviating from that was fighting an uphill battle.  The Galaxies ended up winning me over to some extent because that spectacle provided something else to offset the linear nature of the gameplay.  Also they were just undeniably excellent. Neutral

The_Jaster wrote:
I don't think you need anything more than great level design to have a top tier Mario platformer. Now, if Dark souls 4 & 5 went with turned-based combat would I be concerned? I'd be quite shocked at a reveal like that but after I settled down I don't think I would be concerned as I'd just likely not play them as it's in a genre I don't particularly enjoy. But for the sake of this hypothetical example let's say I did play it I know for a fact I wouldn't be directly comparing it to DaS 1-3 as it'd be totally unfair.

Different strokes: I think to reach the very highest echelons, you do.  The SM3D games' inorganic blocky levels didn't help either.  They worked in Sunshine because they were surrounded by organic-feeling worlds.  That's according to me, natch - speaking of which, a tangent.

Drunkalilly wrote:
That might not be as appealing to you as exploration or space spectacle, but don't pretend it didn't exist and have value for a lot of people.
Balladeer wrote:
RIGHT.  Personal opinions and subjectivity coming up.
Come on Drunka.  I know you disagree with them, but I did say right there at the top that it was all my personal opinions.

Back to Jas: I would be... shall we say surprised if you were genuinely that chill about the DS approach, especially if the signs were that approach would continue until later games. I know a lot of people wouldn't be, in any case! That's where I was.

The_Jaster wrote:
Also I have to know what you prefer out of SM64 and Sunshine so..............now you must choose.  Razz

OOFT YA BASTARD. DAMN YOU! Trouble is, this really is comparing apples and oranges for me.  I don't like oranges, but the apple's gone a bit wrinkly through age.  SM64 I will always have a soft spot for, for reasons mentioned above, and what it did hadn't been done since for me until SMO: the exploratory 3D platformer (without ridiculous collectathon emphasis to exclude the Rare games).  It's more so than Sunshine and I will always love it for that.  Trouble is, I went back to it on Wii U and it just didn't live up to my memories.  I knew the graphics were blocky, but I found the swathes of empty space made some of the levels feel poorly paced, and the camera was janky.  I think it still holds up, just, but not as well as it did.

SMS, mind, I haven't gone back to, so it sits in my mind as it always did: a gloriously pretty sun-drenched nicely themed yet flawed platformer.  FLUDD wasn't that great, however ingeniously it was used, and it did railroad the player more than SMS; and the theme wasn't used to its full potential.  We had a lot of places that could fit under 'generic sunny green level', when they could have plunged us into jungle, or set an entire world in the clouds.  

I think in the end Sunshine would edge it, solely because SM64 had one big unique thing going for it in the freedom to approach the stars in pretty much whatever order you liked after throwing King Bob on his King Bott, and SMO has usurped it a bit.  However, it's still a great game, and its Stars feel much more special than SMO's Moons due to their rarity.  It remains an 8/10 for me.

gjones wrote:
I don't think Super Mario 3D Land should be compared to the full-blown console Marios - it's designed for short bursts of play. It's like putting Super Mario Land 2 alongside Super Mario 64. And as a portable Mario, Super Mario 3D Land is excellent. Super Mario 3D World, although I've not played it, feels like a quick fix that tried to capitalise on NSMB Wii's popular multiplayer.

That's a fair consideration re. SM3DW.  Incidentally I'd say that NSMBWii is the closest thing this decade has to a bad Mario, at least in single-player only.  It felt broad and unfocussed, due primarily I'd imagine to having to make the levels fit up to four players + Yoshis.  It's the only Mario platformer this decade I didn't finish.
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyTue 5 Nov 2019 - 22:05

Gravity Rush was one I teased but not 100% it's a platformer but Ratchet & Clank 100% is, even though I've seen Matthew Castle be sort of iffy on it being one, guess that's the Nintendo view even though it is one and fine one at that.
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyWed 6 Nov 2019 - 2:05

I'd say Ratchet and Clank is a platformer, although that's trickier to say in the later games as it definitely veers more towards an action game. Maybe Metacritic were onto something all along classing platformers as action games since 2017. Laughing

I was going to craft a big ol' post but others have done a much better job than I ever could already, so I won't bother. I'll chime in with agreeing with Cappa on the best 3D platformer being Super Mario Odyssey - it simply is, and I can't really imagine a strong argument against it being the best 3D platformer of the 2010s - but considering I've not played Sonic Mania, I can't say yay or nay to his best 2D platformer. I don't think I'd be as positive on it as others have been as I'm not a fan of classic Sonic and as a deliberate throwback, I fear it'd lose me there.

I think it'd have to be Celeste in my eyes for best 2D platformer. Even if you stripped away the wonderful story and fantastic music, you'd still have a platformer with smooth and fluid movement that feels satisfying as hell to actually platform within. Obviously, the story and music are what makes it truly special but I think there's sometimes too much focus on that and not enough in recognising that it's actually a fantastic game to play in its own right.
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyWed 6 Nov 2019 - 11:27

Gravity Rush is not a platformer, no.

Ratchet and Clank veers the most, of the Jak/Ratchet/Sly circle, away from being a platformer with a large focus on wacky guns, but it's still absolutely a 3D platformer - especially the first game. Sly is the most dedicated 3D platformer of that trio and actually had a new (and very good!) game in the decade in Sly 4.

If you're judging what counts as a 3D platformer based on it being pure platforming alone, then there are plenty parts of Mario Odyssey that don't even fit!
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyThu 7 Nov 2019 - 12:39

Mario Odyssey is a mainline Mario adventure so it gets extra platforming points by default. Razz Glad to see Jay joining in with the two correct choices, and he's right: the gameplay, or perhaps more the game feel, of Celeste is as important and as excellent as the trappings. I'm a little surprised that SMG2 isn't topping more charts, but I'm guessing that's sequelitis in play?
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyThu 7 Nov 2019 - 21:52

Oh, that's an interesting point about Mario Odyssey - a lot of is exploring rather than platforming. I'm not sure now, because I automatically put it in the platformer box, but wouldn't have said Ratchet and Clank was (I enjoyed it a lot whatever it was)... Let's say... if a game has some kind of lift that floats up and down between two points, seemingly without any support, then it's a platformer (in which case both of those guys are)
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyFri 8 Nov 2019 - 9:17

Probably a pretty accurate measure!

(I still haven't played SMG2)
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyFri 8 Nov 2019 - 18:43

I thought that might actually disqualify Celeste for a second, but I presume that the Bear Blocks from level 6 count.
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyThu 14 Nov 2019 - 23:36

Right, I reckon conversation has petered out on platformers, so let's move forwards...

It's time for some shootybang goodness - let's chat about the best First Person Shooters of the 2010s. This is a genre that really began to get popular towards the mid to late Noughties, what with the monolithic rise of the Call of Duty series. That momentum has definitely continued into the 2010s and whilst FPS games aren't as frequent as they used to be, they're still a huge part of the gaming landscape.

So, let's find out some of your favourites.

Metacritic is slightly more useful this time, but they've classified it purely as "first person" games, so you'll get stuff like Return of the Obra Dinn sneaking in there.

Let's go!
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PostSubject: Re: The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed)   The Big Gaming in the 2010s Discussion Thread (Best FPS Games of the 2010s currently being discussed) - Page 4 EmptyYesterday at 9:45

Immediately went to grab a video of Lovely Planet, and I find out a sequel just came out on PC o:

Superhot and Titanfall 2 spring to mind, they have to be two of if not the two best FPS games of the decade.
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