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 What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)

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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyTue 25 May 2021 - 22:24

Well, I absolutely stuffed that aside.  Let's move on!

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From a series that has been going downhill to a series that's forgotten where the hill is, it's F-Zero!  Safe to say that most of us would really like to see it come back - but in what form?  Would you like a straight remaster of GX with online, or an all-new game?  What sort of tracks would you like to see?  What new innovations?  Should it have a Story Mode?  What about Death Race?  And what about (whisper it) an easy mode?

Last 5 games:
 

I'm probably one of the less big F-Zero fans here.  That's because it's too fast and hard for me (matron etc.).  That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see it come back though!  I think a remaster of GX is a reasonable starting point, possibly with some characters from e.g. Maximum Velocity making it in, definitely with online.  I would however be keener on a new game.  I liked the campaign of GX and I'd love to see that expanded on; I'd love to see a track creator, something that was never seen outside the 64DD in Japan; and finally, yes, I'd really like an easy mode.  If Ghouls 'n' Ghosts is doing it, why can't F-Zero cater to the crap among us?  It shouldn't be the default though, obviously.  

What I'd really like, though, is an open-world game where Captain Falcon rides his two modes of transport around, raking in bounties.  Who mentioned getting Platinum to make an action game with him in?  That sounds great.  I realise I'm in a massive minority here but that way, I might actually finish an F-Zero game without cheating.

Over to you!
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Muss
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyWed 26 May 2021 - 11:48

I don't really understand why they haven't remastered GX to be honest, it's a game screaming out for one. There aren't many games like it on the Switch so I feel like it has to be fairly safe money for Nintendo. The game still looks good today so it's not like they need to do too much more than port it...

That would be more than enough for me but there definitely should be an easy mode. A return of the Death Race would be welcome as well, as would a track creator of course.

The story mode in GX was fun although it could certainly have used an easy mode because it was tough as nails. I've seen ideas bandied about for an open-world F-zero before, and I wouldn't be against if it was still racing focused. The appeal of the series for me has always been its blistering speed and bright colours. There isn't a shortage of action games, but there is a lack of futuristic colourful racers.

By all means, have an open world - there is a mission in the GX campaign that involved keeping your speed above a threshold whilst driving down the f-zero equivalent of the M4 or your car would explode - I'd like to see more of F-zero's neon covered cities, but I don't really want it to be too much more than an elaborate hub. I would be concerned that the moment you start adding things that aren't driving about, that's the moment you get a game that doesn't do things well.

I'm sure a lot of us will have read that interview where F-zero gets dismissed because there isn't a way to innovate the series. Well, an open world game would certainly be an answer to that. But we all know the real reason why they haven't made another is because it didn't sell that well. Gimmie an F-Zero brawler if we're taking the Captain out for a stroll.
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The Cappuccino Kid
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyFri 28 May 2021 - 8:57

@Muss wrote:
I don't really understand why they haven't remastered GX to be honest, it's a game screaming out for one. There aren't many games like it on the Switch so I feel like it has to be fairly safe money for Nintendo. The game still looks good today so it's not like they need to do too much more than port it...

That would be more than enough for me but there definitely should be an easy mode. A return of the Death Race would be welcome as well, as would a track creator of course.

I echo all of that. I just feels like an odd oversight to have not ported it at this point.

For me, I'd really like an F-Zero X remaster, but with redesigned courses (just like the retro tracks in Mario Kart 8 ), a massive graphical update and maybe a few new mechanics to further freshen it up.
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyFri 28 May 2021 - 19:08

I'd prefer an F-Zero X remaster too. For one thing I got on better with the tracks, and for the other it would require some actual effort. (Also: X Cup!) That's exactly the reason why I don't think it'll happen though. You'd need so much effort to make what was a pretty graphically light effort on the Nintendo 64 into a Switch game that I feel you might as well just make a new game at that point. Meanwhile GX just needs a touch-up.

@Muss wrote:
I've seen ideas bandied about for an open-world F-zero before, and I wouldn't be against if it was still racing focused. The appeal of the series for me has always been its blistering speed and bright colours. There isn't a shortage of action games, but there is a lack of futuristic colourful racers.

By all means, have an open world - there is a mission in the GX campaign that involved keeping your speed above a threshold whilst driving down the f-zero equivalent of the M4 or your car would explode - I'd like to see more of F-zero's neon covered cities, but I don't really want it to be too much more than an elaborate hub. I would be concerned that the moment you start adding things that aren't driving about, that's the moment you get a game that doesn't do things well.

I'm sure a lot of us will have read that interview where F-zero gets dismissed because there isn't a way to innovate the series. Well, an open world game would certainly be an answer to that. But we all know the real reason why they haven't made another is because it didn't sell that well. Gimmie an F-Zero brawler if we're taking the Captain out for a stroll.

I said I'd be in the minority. Laughing I'm sure that's what most people would want, and I'd definitely want an open-world F-Zero to have a big driving component. I just wouldn't mind personally if that was only one part.
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Jimbob
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptySun 30 May 2021 - 14:32

I only played GX once round a mate's house - it seemed too hard for me! So maybe a new game entirely, using the graphical whizz, but not with mega-long and complicated courses. Remember Star Wars Episode I Racer? That was like trying to memorise a pack of cards.
(Also we played Mario Kart Double Dash right after, and it looked like the karts weren't moving)

It's nice there's an extended F-Zero universe, but I think (and I wouldn't normally say this) I just want the game to tell me about it - ideally with commentary rather than Long 200s Japanese Cutscenes. I don't care about Captain Falcon's other career as a bounty hunter or whatever he does, he's the guy that drives the blue car. I wouldn't play F1 2021 to cook Lewis Hamilton's breakfast.

But yeah also X cup. I think there's room for a simplified procedural track thing - or an editor! We'll see who can set the fastest 3 lap time on Big Boaby.
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Muss
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyMon 31 May 2021 - 10:26

I saw someone suggest an f-zero battle royale game, kind of like the Mario one we had. I guess something like that could work if they went for something different.

Jimbob ain't wrong about the speed though. GX was blisteringly quick and required track memorisation and the right vehicle. Probably the closest you'll come to piloting an Olympic bobsleigh.
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyMon 31 May 2021 - 11:33

@Muss wrote:
Probably the closest you'll come to piloting an Olympic bobsleigh.

That's an interesting point. I reckon that's something that F-Zero perhaps needs, some terrain or physicality to the racing surfaces. Sand, snow (or ice), and dirt are all in those floating circuits and a developer like Codemasters could bring that "battling against the track" feel. The snow levels in Dirt certainly replicate the bobsleigh experience.

I would like a straight-up racer that has a nice, meaty campaign mode. It doesn't even need CGI cut-scenes, just tasks or challenges akin to Burnout. Let me customise the vehicle and build rivalries. Go all-in on Death Race mode with leagues, co-op, online multiplayer etc. The one thing I would change is the instant-Retire when you fall off the track. Fall off the track - you get a 4-second penalty added to your time. That was my one criticism of F-Zero back in the day, particularly in 4-player split-screen. If you fall off of the first corner you just have to sit there and watch. That's not fun. You can keep the insta-Retire available of course, perhaps on the harder cups it's compulsory, but in the earlier modes it should be a bit more welcoming.
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyMon 31 May 2021 - 15:27

I don't have much to add to this one;GX on my Switch with online play would tickle my pickle good and proper.
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyTue 1 Jun 2021 - 20:02

That's exactly the reason why I was a bit hesitant about doing this one (I think somebody said they'd like to see it), as I've always assumed that everybody but me loved GX and I was just bobbins at it. This...

@Muss wrote:
Jimbob ain't wrong about the speed though. GX was blisteringly quick and required track memorisation and the right vehicle. Probably the closest you'll come to piloting an Olympic bobsleigh.

...however is exactly what I remember, a big long memorisation challenge that kind of put me off the series a bit. (Maybe it put Nintendo off the series too!) Then again, I thought they were all like that, since I found X and Maximum Velocity much the same. In my defence I was worse at games then.

@gjones wrote:
The one thing I would change is the instant-Retire when you fall off the track. Fall off the track - you get a 4-second penalty added to your time. That was my one criticism of F-Zero back in the day, particularly in 4-player split-screen. If you fall off of the first corner you just have to sit there and watch. That's not fun. You can keep the insta-Retire available of course, perhaps on the harder cups it's compulsory, but in the earlier modes it should be a bit more welcoming.

I think GX had that as an option in multiplayer. Maybe that could be a part of Easy Mode?
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyFri 4 Jun 2021 - 12:51

They're definitely all a bit like that, but it's most severe in GX because it is the most challenging (although it doesn't have rubber band AI like X does). Thing is memorisation is a part of all racing games, even down to the most accessible ones like Mario Kart. It's just mitigated better in pretty much any other racer.

MK has its accessibility options, weapons, and relatively short tracks. The winner will probably have played enough to have memorised the boost pads and stuff but it's a Nascar party game with a compressed pack and a chance for anyone to win within reason. F1 has it's AI sliders, damage options, and a litany of driver assists you can turn on or off to help you get into the game. F-Zero has... a "normal" mode.

Give us an invincibility mode, an easy AI mode, a lakitu, a 50cc mode, and a death race or track editor so that there is something beyond racing, and I think that people being competitive at an entry level will make memorisation less daunting. At least until the point that you want to go for that hardcore arcade racer experience.
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyWed 9 Jun 2021 - 21:39

Yep, I reckon you're bang on with all of that. In particular, make all the cars eventually unlockable on easy mode.


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Finally out of these first three, we have a series of games (plus friend) that's doing well and presumably isn't going anywhere any time soon, but which people will presumably have strong feelings about the direction of the next game: Soulsborne games! I've included Bloodborne in with the Soulses because from what I've heard it's very much cut from the same cloth, but if you want to ignore it and focus on the Soulses that's also fair game. This is also a show of good faith that I won't only be picking series that I'm interested in/have played. (Unless this discussion dies on its bum, natch.)

So anyway, what do you want to see? First off: Bloodborne 2 or Dark Souls 4? Or Demon Souls 2, even? Or a Souls that plays like Bloodborne, or a completely separate adventure that plays the same? Where would you like the next adventure to be set? Where would you like to explore? What weapons would you like to wield, and what hideous creature would you like to be stomped into dust repeatedly by as you slowly, achingly, git gud?

Last 5 games:
 

Y'all don't want to hear my thoughts on how DS4 should have an easy mode and bright cel-shaded visuals and swap lore for cut-scenes, so I'm relying on this place's Souls fans to keep this going. Have at it!
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyWed 9 Jun 2021 - 21:49

Now I'm not a big Souls guy and what I would like might make it easier that's waypoints & map.

The others likely got better ideas which we don't know Elden Ring isn't actually doing anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyWed 9 Jun 2021 - 21:55

(I've just read the Elden Ring Wikipedia article having completely forgotten it was a thing, and yep, sure enough it says it's being pitched as a spiritual successor to Souls - so 'what would you like to see in Elden Ring' is definitely a valid angle to come at this from!)
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyThu 10 Jun 2021 - 1:09

@Balladeer wrote:
Soulsborne games!  I've included Bloodborne in with the Soulses because from what I've heard it's very much cut from the same cloth, but if you want to ignore it and focus on the Soulses that's also fair game.
Thisis kind of fair? It's a weird one to discuss, because it's not a "series" but it's not quite a "genre" because I don't think anyone else has matched it. What you have, essentially, is a developer with a distinctive house style.

Subsequently,
Quote :

Last 5 games:
 
Is a bit of a weird list. I wouldn't include the remasters, and my list would look like this:
Last Six games:
 

Now, I'm only now playing Bloodborne and I have Sekiro to look forward to, and they seem to pretty much do what I would say I want: take this team's talent and dedication, and apply it to new concepts drawing inspiration from elsewhere beside a Japanese take on Western fantasy. Bloodborne is a sublime take on gothic and gosmic horror, Sekiro looks to be totally sick samurai stuff. They both change up the combat from Souls' shield and sword stuff.

What don't I want? Dark Souls 4. 2 Blood 2 Borne. Sekiros. I want to be taken to a new world, I want to not understand and I want to have to perform archaeology and investigation to tease out the truth about a deeply satisfying fantasy story. The best games are Dark Souls and Bloodborne, and that's because the discovery is a big part of the experience and the stories are satisfying and self-contained. More of that.


Quote :
Y'all don't want to hear my thoughts on how DS4 should have an easy mode and bright cel-shaded visuals and swap lore for cut-scenes
@masofdas wrote:
what I would like might make it easier that's waypoints & map.
If things could be added in their own easy mode or whatever, I obviously wouldn't begrudge that, but it isn't the game we're fans of. Easier games, simpler games, lighter games, games which don't rely on exploration, other companies are making those; I don't want them to be made in the place of a From RPG.
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyThu 10 Jun 2021 - 7:00

Buska wrote:
What don't I want? Dark Souls 4. 2 Blood 2 Borne. Sekiros. I want to be taken to a new world, I want to not understand and I want to have to perform archaeology and investigation to tease out the truth about a deeply satisfying fantasy story. The best games are Dark Souls and Bloodborne, and that's because the discovery is a big part of the experience and the stories are satisfying and self-contained. More of that.

This.

While the likes of DaS 2 & 3 were great games in their own right the call backs felt a bit like "oh remember this?" which got a bit tiring & in the case of Bloodborne/Sekiro it would actually be a shame if they got numbered sequels. I am a bit worried of the open world aspect of Elden Ring but if there's anyone that can push the envelope in that space it is From soft.


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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyThu 10 Jun 2021 - 8:38

That's a interesting view about the genre as you a see Z game advertised or described as a Souls-like/Soulsborne which some are definitely copying or inspired by.

Why interesting though is the matched it part as was Metroidvania talk on Twitter the other day, SOTN would have matched or imo bettered any Metroid game.

That are we waiting for that game from someone that it's From to match or better the games, then it becomes it's own genre.

Yeah the explanation not for me, wonder if Elden Ring open world that will need to have a map or whatnot.
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyThu 10 Jun 2021 - 10:11

@masofdas wrote:
Yeah the explanation not for me, wonder if Elden Ring open world that will need to have a map or whatnot.

It's possible but I wouldn't 100 percent expect it to have one, as from the little we do know it sounds like Miyazaki is using an open world to make combat feel different.

Quote :
"Creating a new type of game is a big challenge for us," Miyazaki told IGN. "If we would add towns on top of that, it would become a bit too much, so we decided to create an open world style game focused on what we are best at.”

Miyazaki wrote:
"With a more open and vast environment, the way combat plays out becomes fundamentally different,"
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyThu 10 Jun 2021 - 12:52

I would just want them to keep coming out with anything but sequels as well. I think 3 Dark Souls games is more than enough and they'll be endlessly remastered I'm sure.

I would like to see them maintain a focus on aggression as they have done with Bloodborne because I prefer that style, but really it's just whatever they think best fits the story they're trying to tell. I'm personally not opposed to an easy mode if it's just a case of tweaking the numbers under the hood. Or even things like making the numbers under the hood more comprehensible.

It gets less compelling to add an easy mode if we're talking about concepts like way points or stuff that gives you a more, I dunno "Westernised", sense of direction and purpose. The series has never been marketed as an accessible game, it's not meant to be for everyone, and I think that's what sets it apart from so many other games these days.
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyFri 11 Jun 2021 - 7:49

Elden Ring trailer:
 
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyFri 11 Jun 2021 - 9:37

Seen and looks good, will I be a silly billy and get another Souls game 😜
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyFri 11 Jun 2021 - 12:24

I love how folk have went nuts (me included) over finally seeing proper gameplay footage, but when you step back a wee bit we haven't really seen that much at all. This is the best approach I think as it keeps you speculating right up until you actually get your hands on it, speaking of which I reckon this will be my first ps5 game. (Hopefully the console is much easier to get a hold of come January.
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyFri 11 Jun 2021 - 13:28

I was so close to a PS5 yesterday, even had in the basket with Ratchet, but it still only be for that & some DLC for FFVIIR at the moment.

As overall this gen so far has been rather meh, which is understandable because of COVID but really it has been old games or cross-gen which is hey it looks better on PS5 or XSX (knew this anyway because of Xbox approach).
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyFri 11 Jun 2021 - 15:29

This places has way too many confusingly-named sub-forums so I posted my Elden Ring take in the wrong place as usual
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptyFri 11 Jun 2021 - 16:00

Ahh don't worry about it too much as GNamer is usually pretty free flowing & if things do get a bit too messy certain posts will be merged into the correct place.
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PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 EmptySat 12 Jun 2021 - 14:58

Yep I'm very good at merging posts. Shifty More seriously, this is just a fun game that happened to be talking about Soulsborne games when the Elden Ring trailer came around because I'm insulated and didn't even remember this game was a thing.  You posted your thoughts in basically the right place - not, as Jas says, like it matters!

I presume everyone's aware that I was mostly taking the mickey with my suggested changes to the recipe!  That said, I don't see what's wrong with an easy mode that has the map and waypoints and things, and a harder mode that the true Soulsfans can play.  There might well be people who would love to enjoy the world-building and aesthetics of the Souls games (not me) while also wanting a more accessible experience, and I don't think it would require much in the means of resource to add.
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What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: What's Next? (for... 2D Zelda)   What's Next?  (for... 2D Zelda) - Page 2 Empty

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