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 Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?

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The Cappuccino Kid
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyThu 11 Jun 2020 - 11:11

"Endlessly satisfying" is a fantastic way of describing the feel of a lot of these games. Taking OutRun 2 as an example, the mastery of it's drifting mechanics in particular are just simply unparalleled in any racing game. It's the measuring stick. Same goes for Streets of Rage 2 for side-scrolling beat 'em ups, Ocarina of Time for action-adventure games, Virtua Tennis 3 for horizontal-scrolling shooters, and so on. 

That's a quality top twenty five.  Thumbs Up!
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyThu 11 Jun 2020 - 18:01

Looking back at my Top 25 and other posts I've made I've come down to 66 games which I've been thinking all afternoon how do I get these down to at least 25, it's just too hard to be honest as I know with MGS games I could place them anywhere on a different day.

BG&E
BioShock
Catherine Full Body
Death Stranding
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy Crisis Core
Final Fantasy Type-0
Fire Emblem Awakening
Firewatch
Forza Horizon 4
God of War (2018)
Golden Axe II
Gone Home
GRIS
Halo
Halo Reach
Horizon Zero Dawn
ICO
Journey
The Last of Us
Life is Strange
Life is Strange Before the Storm
Mario Kart Double Dash
Mass Effect Trilogy
MGS
MGS2
MGS3
MGS4
MGSV
Mortal Kombat II
Ninja Gaiden Black
Overwatch
Oxenfree
Persona 4 Golden
Persona 5 Royal
Pokemon RBY
Portal
Red Dead
Res Evil 2 Classic
Res Evil 3 Classic
Res Evil 4
Shenmue II
Silent Hill
Silent Hill 2
Sonic 2
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Pocket Adventure
SotC Remake
Soul Calibur
Soul Calibur II
Streets of Rage 2
Super Mario 64
Super Smash Bros Melee
Tales from the Borderlands
Tekken 3
THPS2
Uncharted 2
Uncharted 4
Walking Dead S1
Wolf Among Us
Yoshi Island
Zelda Ocarina of Time
Zelda Skyward Sword
Zelda Twilight Princess
Zelda Wind Waker


Last edited by masofdas on Fri 12 Jun 2020 - 18:30; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : A-Z)
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gjones
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyThu 11 Jun 2020 - 19:10

Mas, you able to explain the reasoning behind this list? I know you like story-driven titles but why Double Dash? Soul Calibur 1 AND 2? I'm interested why these titles are in there. Also, Golden Axe II is a raaaandom selection. I like it, but personally I think I prefer the first's gameplay. It just feels a bit more reactive. I also don't think I've ever seen a single human put Golden Axe II in their Top games list.
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyThu 11 Jun 2020 - 19:17

Right I've gone for Double Dash aa I wanted to put a Mario Kart in this Top games list and that's my favourite.

Originally I was doing one game per series, so it would have been Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast but SCII on the GameCube (Xbox also good) is still a banger and would pick to play it over most games.

Golden Axe II is the one I've got the most memories of from the Mega Drive, why it's joined by likes of Sonic 2 and MKII.
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gjones
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyThu 11 Jun 2020 - 19:34

@masofdas wrote:
Right I've gone for Double Dash aa I wanted to put a Mario Kart in this Top games list and that's my favourite.

Originally I was doing one game per series, so it would have been Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast but SCII on the GameCube (Xbox also good) is still a banger and would pick to play it over most games.

Golden Axe II is the one I've got the most memories of from the Mega Drive, why it's joined by likes of Sonic 2 and MKII.

Fair enough. This explains Sonic Adventure 2. I think I've either misunderstood or simply gone with different criteria for my "Top" list - I have many fond memories of Goldeneye and PES 6 but they aren't much fun to play now, mostly because I don't have three mates sat on the end of my bed, huddled round a 14" CRT television. This is also why I've bumped Shenmue right to the bottom as having played the re-release, it hasn't aged too well.

I would agree with you on Soul Calibur II - it's better than the first. But it's a refinement of the first, which is (in my opinion) a landmark videogame. Genuinely blew me away at the time, and still plays the same. Has anyone played Soul Calibur III? That game should be 99 on Metacritic with genetics that good, what happened there?
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyThu 11 Jun 2020 - 19:49

I've tried to base the list of various things and I do feel I'd have a good time with all these games still just some nostglia might give them are higher bump but overall I think this is the best 66 games give or take, as I do know some of them like SA2 isn't as good as let's say SMO but SA2 will bring a bigger smile to my face.

SCIII was shite
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Balladeer
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyFri 12 Jun 2020 - 18:19

Re. GJones' 25, that has some impressively retro bits in it!  Given which I'd definitely say it looks like you've picked those games where the game feel endures - because let's face it, more recent games probably have the edge in most other departments, but truly top quality controls will never age.  (Then again, you've got SM64 in there. Nah nah! )

Re. Mas' 66, I think that is too long a list for my monkey brain to fully analyse, especially as they're not really in any order (alphabetical would help if it grouped the Legend of Zeldas together, which it doesn't).  Happily GJones has kind of done that!

Re. mine...  It's not changed all that much from the top of page 8, with only four new entries.  I guess I'll go through and try and do some thematic analysis like wot GJones has, and like Mas has tried to do to my top ten.  I'll be mentioning the top general categories that I think apply to each game, narrowing it down to one where possible.  

BASTARD HUGE POST ALERT: I completely understand if you don't fancy reading any/all of this.

The List:
 

The Changes:
 

The Categories:
 

The Analysis:
 

The Summary:
 


Last edited by Balladeer on Fri 12 Jun 2020 - 18:22; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : BLOODY HELL THIS TOOK ME ALMOST AN HOUR TO TYPE)
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyFri 12 Jun 2020 - 18:32

I've put the Final Fantasy and Zelda games under those two titles if that makes it easier to read
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gjones
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyFri 12 Jun 2020 - 19:18

Yes, Balla! That's a quality, in-depth post and genuinely interesting.

I reckon it's difficult to gauge or predict a game you'd like, because these games are all Nintendo exclusives (aside from Okami, Goose Game and Celeste). There aren't many games that feel like Zelda or Mario at their best, so recommending Dark Cloud or Ratchet & Clank because they could be considered the best alternative on another system, is inevitably going to disappoint. Did you play Okami on the Wii, PS2 or on the current gen? I wonder if playing a game at the time, rather than generations later, may impact your enjoyment of a title. When Bayonetta dropped in 2010 it was a dream to play, but by 2014 the original could have felt a bit more ordinary compared to it's mad sequel. Muramasa is an interesting one - Viewtiful Joe or Guardian Heroes would be my immediate recommendations based on that, but both could potentially feel a little dated now, despite looking great and playing really well.
Which of your list did you play "after-the-fact"?

I slipped Mario 64 in to my list, as I played through in 2014 and it managed to impress me, 18 years after it released.
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gjones
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptySun 14 Jun 2020 - 18:25

@masofdas wrote:


SCIII was shite

I read through some reviews for Soul Calibur III and it was well-received. The main criticism is the lack of online modes, which is baffling considering it's a PS2 game. I know in late 2005 there was a shift towards including online modes in everything (at least on PS2 and Xbox) but it seems an odd thing to mark a game down for. Saying that, being a PS2 exclusive seems to have hurt the franchise because by the time Soul Calibur IV rolled around I had zero interest in picking it up in 2008. I know it still sold, but I don't think people considered it the peak of fighting games that they had just a few years earlier.
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptySun 14 Jun 2020 - 18:34

I bought it at launch and still say it's shite

If IV didn't have Star Wars characters I may have given it a miss because of III, I did give V a miss for some reason but have VI on my shelf unplayed.


I will add even though I made a more proper list of 66 games, today I was talking about the Series X in work and Backward Compatibly was mentioned where I went on about how I could play KOTOR on it, that's a 9/10 games and one of my favourites ever that makes the OG Xbox so great.

That I can think of so many games that could be on a Top 100 or whatever, okay it didn't come to mind at the time that you may go I should be bang that's a Top game and I admit I've put worse games on my list because I find them enjoyable, just that they're so many great games.
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Balladeer
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyMon 15 Jun 2020 - 18:23

@masofdas wrote:
I've put the Final Fantasy and Zelda games under those two titles if that makes it easier to read

Let me rephrase: 'I completely understand if you don't fancy reading any/all of this... unless you want me to comment on your own 66-item list.' Razz

You did look over my top ten I suppose; but even with the extra ordering, that's such a varied 66 that I don't have much to say about it.  I guess I'd be really interested in seeing the games in chronological order, and seeing if your tastes slowly drift away from the more gameplay-focussed examples (with a couple of exceptions that are sheer nostalgia) and towards more story-focussed games, as that's what my gut tells me your tastes look like now; but that would be a bastard to put together and obviously I don’t expect you to do it!

@gjones wrote:
Yes, Balla! That's a quality, in-depth post and genuinely interesting.

I reckon it's difficult to gauge or predict a game you'd like, because these games are all Nintendo exclusives (aside from Okami, Goose Game and Celeste). There aren't many games that feel like Zelda or Mario at their best, so recommending Dark Cloud or Ratchet & Clank because they could be considered the best alternative on another system, is inevitably going to disappoint. Did you play Okami on the Wii, PS2 or on the current gen? I wonder if playing a game at the time, rather than generations later, may impact your enjoyment of a title. When Bayonetta dropped in 2010 it was a dream to play, but by 2014 the original could have felt a bit more ordinary compared to it's mad sequel. Muramasa is an interesting one - Viewtiful Joe or Guardian Heroes would be my immediate recommendations based on that, but both could potentially feel a little dated now, despite looking great and playing really well.
Which of your list did you play "after-the-fact"?

I slipped Mario 64 in to my list, as I played through in 2014 and it managed to impress me, 18 years after it released.

Much obliged, Mr. Jones! Smile

I played Okami originally on the Wii, and the waggle-to-combat was torture.  The Celestial Brush wasn't much better, not with my shaky hands.  It's indubitably better now on Switch, but the slower aspects gall more on a replay and... well, the main thing I liked about it was exploration and discovery, necessarily reduced in a second playthrough.  I wonder whether my love of those aspects is also why I don't like replaying games so much.  As for Bayonetta, I played the original in 2014 but never played the sequel, despite owning it in the same package.

Besides Okami, I think the full 'after the fact' list is OoT (played on the GC WW bonus disc) and Trials & Tribulations.  A Hat in Time from the 'bubbling under' list might qualify too, since it came out on other platforms before Switch, but there wasn't much of a break.  Viewtiful Joe I did find appealing - apart from the main character, who I know was meant to be cheesy but did that a bit too well!  Anyway, I never really played it.  Not familiar with Guardian Heroes.

Fair enough!  That's a good criterion, I'd say.  It's not on mine for similar reasons, and not holding up on replay, even though it'll probably always be my favourite game in my heart.
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyMon 15 Jun 2020 - 23:51

@Balladeer wrote:
@masofdas wrote:
I've put the Final Fantasy and Zelda games under those two titles if that makes it easier to read

Let me rephrase: 'I completely understand if you don't fancy reading any/all of this... unless you want me to comment on your own 66-item list.' Razz

You did look over my top ten I suppose; but even with the extra ordering, that's such a varied 66 that I don't have much to say about it.  I guess I'd be really interested in seeing the games in chronological order, and seeing if your tastes slowly drift away from the more gameplay-focussed examples (with a couple of exceptions that are sheer nostalgia) and towards more story-focussed games, as that's what my gut tells me your tastes look like now; but that would be a bastard to put together and obviously I don’t expect you to do it!

Much like I said it was hard to narrow down to 25 then to go put in a sort of chronological  Afraid  but I do have one idea though

9.5/10
Death Stranding, Recently biased might help it's score
Metal Gear Solid 3 Snake Eater, with the improved Subsistence stuff of course
Persona 5 Royal, This score is mainly based on Persona 5
Shadow of the Colossus Remake, The remake cemented this as a masterpiece to me
Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D, Might drop but this is based on nostalgia due to fact how good it was when I played on GameCube first time then on 3DS
Zelda Wind Waker HD, My favourite game of all-time and what made me a Zelda & Nintendo fan

9/10
BioShock
Catherine Full Body
Final Fantasy IX, Still holds up as the best mainline FF game
Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core, this is the best FF
Fire Emblem Awakening, Made me a fan of the series
Firewatch
Forza Horizon 4, Best racing game I've played
God of War (2018), Outstanding
GRIS
Halo Combat Evolved, Still holds up in 2020 and did so much for the FPS genre
Halo Reach, the Best Halo in terms of story but MP does let it down
Horizon Zero Dawn, Why the second is a PS5 system seller to me
Journey, I was close to putting it as 9.5/10
Life is Strange
Mass Effect Trilogy, The ending stops it from being a 9.5/10
MGS, Introduced us to iconic characters
MGS2
MGS4, Ultimate fan service
MGSV, The best gameplay in the MGS series but a shame the rest of the ending was on a Blu-ray #FucKonami
Persona 4 Golden, GO PLAY NOW ON STEAM
Pokemon R/B/Y, Might drop but this is based on nostalgia
Res Evil 4 (Cube or Wii), We don't need a Remake of this
Shenmue II
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive), Might drop but this is based on nostalgia
Sonic the Hedgehog Pocket Adventure, The best Sonic game ever made
Soul Calibur
Soul Calibur II (Cube)
Streets of Rage 2, Might drop but this is based on nostalgia
Super Mario 64, Still holds up and did so much for the genre
Super Smash Bros Melee, The best SMASH still
Tekken 3
THPS2 (Dreamcast), I could see the remake taking this place or knocking it of because not as good as we remember
Uncharted 2
Uncharted 4
Walking Dead S1
Wolf Among Us, The best Telltale game
Yoshi Island, The best Mario game and made me envious of not having a SNES
Zelda Skyward Sword, The motion controls work
Zelda Twilight Princess HD, Midna alone makes it worthy of top games status

8/10
Beyond Good and Evil, Classic
Final Fantasy Type-0 HD
Golden Axe II, Might drop but this is based on nostalgia
Gone Home
ICO
The Last of Us: Part I, Remastered for the Left Behind DLC
Life is Strange Before the Storm, Almost put it in the 9/10 slot but loses something LiS has
Mario Kart Double Dash, Best Mario Kart
Mortal Kombat II (Mega Drive), Might drop but this is based on nostalgia also I will beat you at it
Ninja Gaiden Black, Got Gud
Overwatch, this would have been higher closer to when it came out but being online only times change
Oxenfree
Portal
Red Dead Redemption
Res Evil 2 Classic, Might drop but this is based on nostalgia
Res Evil 3 Classic, Might drop but this is based on nostalgia
Silent Hill, Might drop but this is based on nostalgia
Silent Hill 2, Might drop but this is based on nostalgia
Tales from the Borderlands

7/10
Sonic Adventure 2 (Cube), Even when I played SA2 Battle on the Cube not that long after the first release on DC I knew it wasn't as good that over time it has aged worse but I still enjoy it a lot

Again though I can think of games like KOTOR which is still an 8/10 game in 2020 or Tacoma which I'd give a 9/10 to and even things like Space Invaders or Pong very much could be mentioned with some of the best ever games.
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gjones
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyTue 16 Jun 2020 - 15:09

Thanks Balla. I think we might be mirrored in our tastes - my Top 25 consisted of mostly short, tight experiences with a sprinkle of story-driven games in small, intimate worlds. Yours are more exploratory, bigger games with a dash of the short, tight experiences. Saying that, I need to play more of your Top 25, especially stuff like Meteos, Ghost Trick and Odyssey.

Mas, I pulled together a "25" using your 9/10s and up. Ones where you mention a negative, I've put it as "Bubbling Under" and omitted the ones that you left no reason for their inclusion...

1. The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker HD (Wii-U)
2. Death Stranding (PS4)
3. Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence (PS2)
4. Persona 5: Royal (PS4)
5. Shadow of the Colossus (PS4)
6. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (3DS)
7. Journey (PS4)
8. Mass Effect 2 (X360)
9. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (SNES)
10. The Wolf Among Us (X360)
11. Final Fantasy IX (PS1)
12. Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core (PSP)
13. Fire Emblem Awakening (3DS)
14. Forza Horizon 4 (XONE)
15. God of War (2018) (PS4)
16. Halo: Combat Evolved (Xbox)
17. Halo: Reach (X360)
18. Horizon Zero Dawn (PS4)
19. Metal Gear Solid (PS1)
20. MGS4, Ultimate fan service
21. Persona 4 Golden (Vita)
22. Resident Evil 4 (Wii)
23. Sonic the Hedgehog Pocket Adventure (NeoGeo Pocket Color)
24. Super Mario 64 (N64)
25. Super Smash Bros Melee (GameCube)

Bubbling under:

Metal Gear Solid V (PS4)
Pokemon Red/Blue (GameBoy)
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive)
Streets of Rage 2 (Mega Drive)
Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2 (Dreamcast)
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (Wii)
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess HD (Wii-U)

Quite a lot of these are remasters, re-releases or "definitive" versions. I don't know if that's cheating or just the equivalent of a film buff stating "My favourite film is Alien, but the Extended Cut, in 4K". I imagine you love the original versions of each of these and regard them as the best games (going by your scores). What do you reckon?
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyTue 16 Jun 2020 - 15:40

Why yes as take SotC on the PS2 that's been in my top games before, but the PS4 version with the newer graphics and improvements just helps cemented it as the masterpiece it is. And something like Death Stranding will best played on PC with a wide monitor as well for instance.

That yeah something like Blade Runner would be a good example as the final cut in 4k is fantastic (maybe in a cinema would be the best way) but I still enjoyed watching whatever verison I had on VHS.
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Balladeer
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyTue 16 Jun 2020 - 20:27

@gjones wrote:
Thanks Balla. I think we might be mirrored in our tastes - my Top 25 consisted of mostly short, tight experiences with a sprinkle of story-driven games in small, intimate worlds. Yours are more exploratory, bigger games with a dash of the short, tight experiences. Saying that, I need to play more of your Top 25, especially stuff like Meteos, Ghost Trick and Odyssey.

Yes, definitely - on both counts. You might be able to get Ghost Trick on yer 'phone these days.

The conversation about remakes is interesting to me, because there are a couple of games I've put in my list where neither the original nor the remake would make it on their own. I'm thinking about OoT, WW, and Mario & Luigi - all games where the original showed the ambition and interesting material, but it's the remake that has made it still enjoyable to me in the modern era. I couldn't be doing with the carved-from-wood graphics of the original OoT or the slow sailing of the original WW today. (Mario Kart 8 would still have made it without Deluxe but further down the list.) Smash actually falls into a similar category - I'm none too impressed by, say, Ultimate's improvements on for Wii U, but treating Ultimate as the culmination of the series it's definitely worthy of a spot in my top ten.

I daresay that if SM64 does get its rumoured remake, the combination might find themselves in my list again.
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gjones
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyWed 17 Jun 2020 - 16:49

@Balladeer wrote:
@gjones wrote:
Thanks Balla. I think we might be mirrored in our tastes - my Top 25 consisted of mostly short, tight experiences with a sprinkle of story-driven games in small, intimate worlds. Yours are more exploratory, bigger games with a dash of the short, tight experiences. Saying that, I need to play more of your Top 25, especially stuff like Meteos, Ghost Trick and Odyssey.

The conversation about remakes is interesting to me, because there are a couple of games I've put in my list where neither the original nor the remake would make it on their own.  I'm thinking about OoT, WW, and Mario & Luigi - all games where the original showed the ambition and interesting material, but it's the remake that has made it still enjoyable to me in the modern era.

Controversial, but perhaps remakes/remasters should be excluded from the discussion. Unless of course, it's like the recent Resident Evil remakes, as they are designed for the current hardware but take their story from an original piece of work. Like, Ocarina of Time is an N64 game, not a 3DS game. It's tricky, because this doesn't really happen in music or film.
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyWed 17 Jun 2020 - 18:16

See I played OoT GameCube and would have put in Top whatever back then but it may have aged, yet when I played on 3DS, I was like this game is still fantastic.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever? - Page 9 EmptyThu 18 Jun 2020 - 20:20

Each to their own, I reckon. For me, for an overall all-time top x games, remakes can play a big role that shouldn't be ignored. Great games at the time can feel old later: remakes can breathe fresh air into them. I'd never doubt that OoT's an N64 game first and foremost (er, except at the top of the last page. Embarrassed Ignore that), but without the 3DS version age would catch up with it. What's more, I'd say that Smash operates on the same principle, despite not being a remake: each incremental step from Mêlée onwards isn't that impressive, but the combination is one of the finest games of all time, just like combining OoT and OoT3D into one experience.

But if you feel that remakes aren't fully in the 'spirit' of a top x and don't want to include them in yours, fair enough! I don't want to try patching up my 25 for if I took the remade games out though, the existing list took long enough as it was... No
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