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 Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?

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fronkhead
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Kieron
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PostSubject: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyMon 12 May 2014 - 1:55

Looking on the List of the games on the WiiU's eShop, I can't believe the lack of quality, interesting Art styles and originality it has!? I hear Microsoft and Sony are throwing money at smaller developers to gain either exclusives or the best the the indie community can produce.

The WiiU has lost/or losing the support of EA, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. But personally, I'm at a stage were AAA games don't really interest me. So this news doesn't effect me.

I just wish Nintendo would have made more of an effort in working with such developers like klei, Simogo, Capybara Games, etc.

Fez, a game that is a love letter to Nintendo is on nearly every other platform except the Wii/WiiU? How can this happen (I don't think the answer is simply Phil Fish)?

Nintendo does not compete with Microsoft and Sony. I understand and respect that. But a console is only as good as it's games, and I'm sorry I don't think Funky Barn and The Mysterious Cities of Gold is cutting it.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyMon 12 May 2014 - 1:59

Also the 3DS eShop is just as, if not more dire. But has a retail gaming library that is incredible, so I'm not really bothered about that.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyMon 12 May 2014 - 9:58

I'm going to have to disagree on most of that, Kieron, I think Nintendo are doing a fine job of attracting indies it's just a shame that most of the interesting games seem further away than I'd like them to be, actually I'm convinced that Nintendo's approval process isn't up to much considering how little we see each week for eshop release day.

Here's a bunch of stuff I'm looking forward to eshop wise:

90s arcade racer
Scram kitty & his buddy on rails (May 15th)
Shovel knight
1001 spikes
Teslagrad
Affordable space adventures
Stealth inc 2 (which is exclusive to wii U)

I'm probably forgetting a good few more but they have the games there they just seems to be taking an age to release.
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyMon 12 May 2014 - 10:18

I completely agree with you Kieron, that's why I have the other systems. For the AAA and Indies even as I'm yet to see much in that front coming unlike jas.

The games the Wii U does get or got are or will be great like mario kart 8, smash bros, bayo 2 but there's always that long cap in between which there not filling it, so during that time I'm on an other system.

Looking at the PS4 Sony has filled the cap with indie titles in till the next decent releases comes out from them or a 3rd party.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyMon 12 May 2014 - 11:19

As Jas said, the Wii U always seems to be just around the corner from a huge influx of indie releases. A significant number disappeared off the schedule recently, probably due to MS' indie push and their stupid parity clause. Anyway, I'm looking forward to Scram Kitty and Shovel Knight, which should be out this month; and there's plenty of stuff on the way, as can be seen by keeping up with the eShop thread. But it does always seem to be "on the way".

Also, two posts made four minutes apart with no post in between them? We've got a lovely shiny "edit" button, just to stop that from being necessary. And what point do Funky Barn and The Mysterious Cities of Gold serve? Especially when the latter's a retail title.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyMon 12 May 2014 - 12:06

Masofdas wrote:
Looking at the PS4 Sony has filled the cap with indie titles in till the next decent releases comes out from them or a 3rd party.

Genuine question, what indie titles does ps4 have that aren't re-releases?

Masofdas wrote:
I completely agree with you Kieron, that's why I have the other systems. For the AAA and Indies even as I'm yet to see much in that front coming unlike jas.

Regardless of wether they interest you or not the games are still there/on the way.
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Kieron
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyMon 12 May 2014 - 13:40

The Lost Cities of Gold is detailed as a WiiU download and I have never seen it in a 'brick and mortar' store. But then again, I wasn't looking.

As for the PS4's indie re-releases, I'd love Nintendo to have those same smaller interesting titles that originated on Steam.

Sorry for the double post. I'm not to au fiat with message boards. I'm struggling to work out how to 'multi quote'. It won't happen again.

Has anyone else seen a trend of smaller publishers Kickstarting their projects with the aim to release on the WiiU. So maybe the desire to be on the Nintendo console is their. I just can't imagine Nintendo will take advantage of this.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyMon 12 May 2014 - 13:57

I meant former, sorry. Funky Barn is retail.  Not sure about LCoG.

And I have seen the trend you describe.  I think Beemoh put it nicely in our latest Admintendo:

@beemoh wrote:
I suppose really indies see consoles as a 'nice to have', it's not central to their business model like it is for AAA.

...

Most of the media narrative around indies has been about how they're making money on PC alone.  Now I know that's going to get overblown because PC gamers are the most up themselves of all the gamer demographics (ooh, controversial) and that'll change the tone of the reporting, but there's no smoke without fire on that one.

...

There's one ex-AAA indie dev I follow on Twitter, and most of what he's got to say on the matter is that it'd be really cool to be on a Nintendo platform.  Not profitable: cool.  And there's a lot to be said for passion over profits, but that does kind of imply that it's not a necessity.

...

It’s all "hero worship" not "success strategy".  I think it's like YouTubers trying to make a jump to TV.
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Kieron
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyMon 12 May 2014 - 14:22

Yeah, thinking about it I have seen Funky Barn in stores.

I imagine if you've grown up on Nes, Snes, etc, becoming a developer and having your game on a Nintendo console must be an awesome feeling.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyMon 12 May 2014 - 14:35

There's loads of indie content headed to Wii U, though most of it is multiplatform (only games I know which are Wii U exclusive and thus creatively use Wii U functionality are Spin the Bottle, Chasing Aurora, Affordable Space Adventures, Scram Kitty and Stealth Inc. 2), the problem is a lot of games have been delayed, both due to Unity apparently not running well yet on Wii U and developers targeting several platforms (QUBE Directors' Cut is an example).

I'm not a huge fan of the idea of moneyhatting indie developers to make games, Nintendo knows paying off developers isn't sustainable, but it has indeed created problems where indie developers (like Vlambeer) believe they are entitled to it to even consider making games for a platform.
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyMon 12 May 2014 - 22:27

[quote="The_Jaster"]
@Masofdas wrote:
Looking at the PS4 Sony has filled the cap with indie titles in till the next decent releases comes out from them or a 3rd party.

Genuine question, what indie titles does ps4 have that aren't re-releases?

So if we count re-release's which are cross-buy so if you've all ready own flower on PS3 you'll get it on PS4 which is such a great idea that, Nintendo needs to do that with VC games if i buy on Wii U, I should get the 3DS version of it for nothing and vice-versa.

Backgammon Blitz
Basement Crawl
Blacklight: Retribution
Child of Light
Contrast
Daylight
Dead Nation: Apocalypse Edition
Doki-Doki Universe
Don't Starve
Escape Plan
Fez
flOw
flower
King Oddball
Mercenary Kings
Octodad: Dadliest Catch
Outlast
Pool Nation FX
Pure Chess
Resogun
Sound Shapes
Sportsfriends
Star Wars Pinball
Stealth Inc: A Clone in the Dark - Ultimate Edition
SteamWorld Dig
Stick It to the Man
Strider
Strike Suit Zero: Director's Cut
Super Motherload
Tiny Brains
Titan Attacks
TowerFall Ascension
Trine 2: Complete Story
Warframe
Zen Pinball 2
35 Download Titles (So not just indies) Out Now after 6 month's, with these two still to come this month Cel Damage HD, Transistor. Making 37.


@Masofdas wrote:
I completely agree with you Kieron, that's why I have the other systems. For the AAA and Indies even as I'm yet to see much in that front coming unlike jas.

Regardless of whether they interest you or not the games are still there/on the way. [/quote

It's my opinion, Kieron said a system is only as good as it's games. And the games on the indie side aren't great I'm not knocking the Wii U as a whole as the 1st party is still the best but this it falls short on and is a negative to the system but to some like yourself might think the titles coming are a positive for it, and they've took for ever to come out the console is 17 month's old and there be 47 download only titles by the end of the month that's only 10 more then the PS4 with a extra 11 month's.

The extra benefit the PS4 & ONE has you can self publish on them which I don't think you can on the Wii U.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyTue 13 May 2014 - 0:56

You didn't really answer my question there, I said games that aren't re-releases also some on your list there aren't actually indie devs (child of light = Ubisoft, strider = Capcom) so the only "failure" e shop has at the minute is getting the games out at a decent pace but as fronkhead said that's been mainly down to technical issues.

Also you can self publish on wii U.

https://wiiu-developers.nintendo.com/
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masofdas
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyTue 13 May 2014 - 1:08

I did say I'll put all downloads as not sure of all the re-releases or them being indie or not and did the same for the WiiUs 47 downloads which also has child of light counted and re-releases in it such as mighty switch force.

But what are the technical issues that there's only 10 more Wii U downloads then ps4, even with a 11 months more on market. How can one get out the game's out so much quicker then the other. As if you can self publish what's the problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyTue 13 May 2014 - 1:57

I bought a few independent games on the Wii, each one relatively dull and forgetful. I see the same calibre now on the WiiU.

When I think of 'Indie', I think of the weird and wonderful games that give you a novel gaming mechanic or explore an interesting subject or Art style. Xbox Live supplied some of the most solid and rewarding games of last generation.

The point I wanted to make and I realise it is a personal one, is that the eShop does NOTHING for me at this time when it comes to 3rd party indie games. For a console that has been out (18 months)? and a company that has a failing system on the market, I expected more?

I hope E3 tells a different story. That Nintendo for the last 6 months has been dipping into its pockets, making deals and is ready make every WiiU owner happy to buy some eShop cards and get spending.

Fingers crossed.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyTue 13 May 2014 - 8:58

@Kieron wrote:
Xbox Live supplied some of the most solid and rewarding games of last generation.

The 360 was a hotbed for indie gaming though last generation - Braid, Super Meat Boy, Castle Crashers are a few just off the top of my head. Thing is, now a lot of those developers have migrated to PC, so exclusive indie titles are increasingly a rarity.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyTue 13 May 2014 - 9:46

Plus 2 out of 3 of the ones you've mentioned are on PS3 as well just to further show the lack of exclusivity.

I disagree about the Wii's being bad though. Sure it slowed towards the later years but World of Goo, Hydroventure, Lostwinds as well as several others were fantastic.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyTue 13 May 2014 - 10:08

I don't think kieron cares if the Wii U get's exclusive download titles he just want's good ones and more of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyTue 13 May 2014 - 10:34

.......and as I've already said they are on the way with a big one out this week.

Quote :
I bought a few independent games on the Wii, each one relatively dull and forgetful. I see the same calibre now on the WiiU.

I'm interested to know what games you played on wii now, as when I think of wiiware I happily remember the likes of world of goo, cave story, and yet it moves which were far from dull & forgetful.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyTue 13 May 2014 - 11:29

Looking at the Wiiware releases, I enjoyed And Yet It Moves, Bit.Trip Beat, TV Show Kings and Lost Winds.

I did play World of Goo on the iPad along time after.

But a console that had such a massive user-base* and was relevant to gamers for 7 years. Has maybe 10 good downloadable titles? That's not good.

* I understand the majority of users never plugged their Wii into the internet, but that still left a lot of serious gamers, like us.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyTue 13 May 2014 - 20:52

'Failure' is a strong word but there's an element* of truth to it. The low install base is to blame, I'm sure, but there are plenty of good things on the horizon. Admittedly, that's been the case for months now, but it's bound to come true soon...

*Tellurium.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptySun 26 Oct 2014 - 14:44

WiiWare actually has a lot of great gems out there, but even I can't remember them all and a lot were from Nintendo's teams or partners themselves (like It's You, Me and the Cubes and MaBoShi). It's certainly more than 10, though, but I see your point: relative to the other platforms WiiWare never managed to accumulate the same sort of library. However, all the best WiiWare indie titles were those which seemed to stay on the platform, and fit the Wii Remote to a tee.

As for Wii U, I think Nintendo's in the right direction and I don't see anything wrong at all: Nintendo supports both Unity and Web Framework, the latter allowing developers to make games using web technologies like HTML5, and we're seeing big name indie titles either making their console debut on Wii U, or launching on Wii U alongside other platforms or shortly after. And there's been a few exclusive indie titles: Affordable Space Adventures and Stealth Inc. 2 are rarities in the age of the commoditised indie game, games made to take advantage of the possibilities afforded by specialised hardware rather than to fit on as many platforms as possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyThu 13 Nov 2014 - 16:25

I don't know about any of you guys but the indie / download scene has started to get good on the Wii U these past 6 months with titles like these.

With likes of
Child of Light
Cloudberry Kingdom
Costume Quest 2
Cubemen 2
Guacamelee! Super Turbo Championship Edition
KickBeat: Special Edition
Lone Survivor: The Director's Cut
Master Reboot
NES Remix 2
Paper Monsters Uncut
Pullbox World
Scram Kitty and his Buddy on Rails
Shovel Knight
Stealth Inc 2: A Game of Clones
SteamWorld Dig
Stick It To The Man
Swords & Soldiers
Tengami
Teslagrad
Tetrobot & Co
The Swapper

I'm not saying I've played them all or there all great but does seem much better then it was, Jay put how the 360 was a hotbed of downloads last gen I do feel that will the PS4 this gen thanks to Sony putting money behind some of the bigger known downloads such as No Man's Sky but the Wii U does seem to be holding it own though with those downloads and ones coming.

I do think this is a great time to be a Wii U owner now.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyFri 14 Nov 2014 - 0:10

Not surpirsed at all as I said back then in this thread that a lot of great stuff was on the way & even now there's good few indiecade videos up on Nintendo's youtube channel show stuff that's out in the near future or into next year.

Things like:

Chariot (got this on ps4 & it's pretty fun stuff)
Runbow
Sportball
Affordable space adventures
The Fall
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyFri 14 Nov 2014 - 9:36

It always seemed to be on it's way since the Wii U launched and you really need to play/see the games closer to there release to really appreciated them. But would like to see Kieron's thought now on the eShop front.
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PostSubject: Re: Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?    Nintendo's EShop Indie Failure?  EmptyFri 14 Nov 2014 - 15:29

Aye there definitely were massively long waits for eshop games & some are still nowhere to be seen things like 90s arcade racer, 1001 spikes & probably a few more I'm currently forgetting because the devs don't keep us in the know.
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