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fronkhead
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PostSubject: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 15:59

I just stumbled across this whilst looking for Kittsy's portfolio (he's taken it down!):

Thought I'd share it here, I haven't read it yet but it's sure to be a good: http://www.gamebanter.co.uk/articles/2014/8/1/interview-martin-kitts-former-editor-n64-magazine.html

Also: Lex Luthor's Solve My Maze: http://www.gamebanter.co.uk/solve-my-maze/

Enjoy!
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JayMoyles
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 16:26

Good read that - 'tis a shame that Kittsy seems to have drifted away from Nintendo, but considering the same thing more or less happened to me, I can empathise with him.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 16:32

I have a feeling I've read or maybe just heard about this before but I can't think where from Eh?
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 17:02

Kittsy's Cookbook has only recently disappeared, I checked it out a while ago. Sad

That was a cracking read. Cheers for sharing, fronky. Sadly, I agree with pretty much everything he said about the current state of Nintendo.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 17:15

Wow. I'm really shocked at how far Kittsy and I have drifted apart. In particular, I'm shocked at this sentence: "they keep rehashing the same old ideas from 15-20 years ago." And the interview took place shortly after Splatoon's reveal, it seems.

I respect him as a journalist, but I completely disagree with him as a gamer.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 17:31

I can see where he's coming from though. Nintendo really does have a reliance on its core franchises - not saying that's a bad thing, but I can see why someone might grow tired of that.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 19:03

I had a whole long reply typed out, then closed the tab by accident. Hissy fit Basically, it's his opinion, but it's one I associate more with the old Nintendo haters on CVG (God rest its soul) than long-term Ninty fans.  

I maintain that Nintendo don't milk their IPs as much as some developers (one Mario Kart/Zelda per console, for instance), and the reasons that people think they do are because (a) they produce more games than most, (b) there aren't that many other big games on their consoles to compare with (a problem, yes, but a different one), (c) they have two big consoles on the market at any one time, or (d) they've been around for long enough to have long histories for some franchises.  I also reckon that there are more new ideas and fun in either of the two Mario Galaxies, say, than in most new IPs produced nowadays.

And it does seem odd that this interview apparently occurred after E3, when Nintendo gave the spotlight to two big new franchises, one on each console.  Still, at the end of the day, he's entitled to his opinion, and I'm not going to say it's objectively wrong - just question it. And it did surprise me.
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fronkhead
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 21:57

Just read it myself, I really can see why he was bitter about the latter days of NGamer magazine, and it seems he was specifically talking about the very end (I'm guessing when he was editor). Castle did bring up a good point (erm, think it was on the CVG forums) about how NGamer put Nintendo coverage front and centre instead of staff personalities.

As for Kittsy's thoughts on the current state of Nintendo, I can see why he'd say that, this is someone who got on the Nintendo bandwagon by way of F Zero, and Nintendo exited the hardware arms race on console a while ago.

I don't think he's right to call Nintendo out on IP recycling, as Balladeer pointed out, but I can see how he came to that conclusion given 1) he's not working in games anymore so he probably has been out of the Nintendo loop for some time, and 2) Taking the bigger picture out of view, it would seem that way to any onlooker. How many people know about Nintendo's new 'garage' initiative?

Stu_the_great wrote:
Kittsy's Cookbook has only recently disappeared, I checked it out a while ago. Sad

Aye, I really wanted to read some of those old NGC pieces again! Though I guess there's the massive archive:

NGC Magazine: http://www.oldgamemags.com/consoles/nintendo/ngc/
N64 Magazine: http://www.oldgamemags.com/consoles/nintendo/n64-magazine/
NGamer: http://www.oldgamemags.com/consoles/nintendo/ngamer/
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 21:58

Yeah. This sadly reminds me of the type of argument you'd see on GameFAQs or such.
Also, there's the assumption that a third party Nintendo would bother making a new F-Zero for PS4, where the reality is they'd play it even more safe and you'd just get New Super Mario Bros 237.

Just look at SEGA... before going third party: Shenmue, Seaman, Jet Set Radio Future.... afterwards: a series of increasingly lackustre Sonic games.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 22:26

I don't think Nintendo should go third-party and I don't agree with Kittsy on that point. But I can totally see where he's coming from in regards to concerns about IP recycling. Again, I don't particularly agree with that point, but I'm very much in the loop when it comes to Nintendo. As Fronky rightly says, to those out of the loop, it's easy to come to that conclusion. The casual market (which Nintendo so heavily marketed themselves towards for good or ill during the Wii years) are going to continue lapping up Mario/Zelda/Pokemon, so Nintendo will make more, natch. And that could easily come off as an over-reliance on their core franchises.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 23:49

The claim of IP recycling can come from a very solid Nintendo fan, though, if you feel that it's the wrong IP's that keep getting new iterations. The F-Zero/Metroid/Star Fox/Advance Wars fans have been crying out for new stuff for ages, with only the Star Fox fans satisfied (hopefully). Certain things are simply more popular and so more iterations of them are made.

Equally, Nintendo are damned if they do: in the last few years Nintendo have introduced Pullblox, Dillon's Rolling Western and Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. - there's creativity and novelty in each of them, but not much credit. Thumbs Down...
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyMon 2 Mar 2015 - 23:54

No way should Nintendo go third-party. I'm a pretty big Nintendo fan if I do say so myself, but it's going to take a colossal Mario game indeed to make me give a flying thingy about the next "proper" game in the franchise. I've reached a stage where I'm getting really rather sick of the fella. Pokémon's a bit of a touchy subject with me these days, too.

... I don't think Dillon's Rolling Western can really cut it in Nintendo terms, appealing lead character design aside.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyTue 3 Mar 2015 - 7:37

Regarding Pokémon you've been stuck in the dark ages since forever, Stu. Or should that be the pre-dark ages? Razz

And those out of the loop should get in the loop before they start saying things like that. Naughty Nintendo is not made on NSMB alone.
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oldschool
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyTue 3 Mar 2015 - 7:59

Not that my view is worth any more than any of you, but as a person who has been playing Nintendo since the original single screen Game & Watch, yes I am that old, I have no problem with what Nintendo have done or are doing, aside from the usual complaints: region coding or advertise well.

The only real problem I have, and I have stated it before, is that they don't put out enough product, not that they put out the same product. They need to make more of their franchises, as much of it is under-utilised. They need to partner more with other companies to keep the flow going, so there is no big droughts, whilst they focus on those big titles they are good at. And will they finally make more and proper use of Pokemon on the home console. Make a proper Stadium, make a new Snap and make a proper, in the series, Pokemon RPG.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyTue 3 Mar 2015 - 8:24

@oldschool wrote:
They need to partner more with other companies to keep the flow going

Do you mean partnering as in Retro Studios and Monolith with their big DK or Xenoblade-type titles, or do you mean farm other franchises out to partner companies? As much as the latter has worked (in my two aforementioned cases), it's also been a right tatey hash in some cases. I'd argue that farming Star Fox out to Rare and then Namco (they did Assault, I recall. And the reviews suggested just that) destroyed any good grace that the franchise received from the outstanding Star Fox 64. And then there's the vitriol that Metroid: Other M receives to this day.

@Balla:The legend of Robin Hood is as old as the hills, but people still love it. Same with Pokémon Yellow. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyTue 3 Mar 2015 - 10:07

As I've not really read these magazines I don't really know who Kittsy is but clearly some of you must of been fond of him and he could be a great Journalist but personally after reading his interview I wouldn't pay any attention to what he has to say in terms of gaming.

Near everything he says especially about Nintendo is what you hear from the trolls of the internet, he's entitled to his opinion and Nintendo might of stopped making stuff for him but they certainly don't rehash everything.

Yes they might reuse there IP like Kirby Epic Yarn which we know they came up with the idea and then put Kirby in it and that's what Nintendo do they come up with ideas and use there IPs around them.

I don't think anyone can say SMG is a rehashing of Sunshine for instance, both of those games showed what Nintendo can do.

I think the closet you could say they rehash is SMASH & Kart and because of there genres you can't do much and what is it 8 Karts in 22 years that's not bad if you compare that with other series like Forza we've had 7 in 9 years. And if you are buying a Nintendo console be it a 3DS, WiiU or the next be it Handheld, Console or Hybrid you expect it to have Mario Kart at some point.

The other one is Core Pokemon which the Pokemon Company get to do what they want with, they do add things but all follow the same principal but you can only do so much with out changing what makes the game great.

And Nintendo has brought us new IPs some now main stays of Nintendo like Animal Crossing in the past 15 years.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyTue 3 Mar 2015 - 11:18

Stu_the_great wrote:
@oldschool wrote:
They need to partner more with other companies to keep the flow going

Do you mean partnering as in Retro Studios and Monolith with their big DK or Xenoblade-type titles, or do you mean farm other franchises out to partner companies? As much as the latter has worked (in my two aforementioned cases), it's also been a right tatey hash in some cases. I'd argue that farming Star Fox out to Rare and then Namco (they did Assault, I recall. And the reviews suggested just that) destroyed any good grace that the franchise received from the outstanding Star Fox 64. And then there's the vitriol that Metroid: Other M receives to this day.

Well Retro and Monolith are 2nd party right? I never understand this, mainly because I don't care enough to read up, but Nintendo owns a controlling share I thought. I do mean complete outsider companies. I don't have a problem with any of the games you mention, but it is important that Nintendo maintain an overarching control of the games, but I think someone who are good at making a certain type of game could make an excellent Nintendo franchise - just not the main series, such as Zelda. I don't know who makes what games, again don't really care, but if a team who made Call of Duty wanted to make a huge Metroid, I would be okay with that. So what if one turns out to be mediocre, the risk is worth it as long as it has some quality control by Nintendo.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyTue 3 Mar 2015 - 13:00

@oldschool wrote:
but if a team who made Call of Duty wanted to make a huge Metroid, I would be okay with that.

No thanks! Even though CoD is a technically well made game (& I did have fun with the recent release) I personally think those skills wouldn't transfer well to a making a Metroid game.

I do see what you're saying though as it would help lighten the load & franchises like f-zero etc would get more of a look in.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyTue 3 Mar 2015 - 14:27

Agreed on the third party comments, it's just not going to happen, and here are two strong arguments against it which I think are great reads:
http://metro.co.uk/2013/05/18/why-nintendo-wont-go-third-party-readers-feature-3788332/
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-01-29-why-nintendo-must-stay-the-course-with-hardware

Stu_the_great wrote:

... I don't think Dillon's Rolling Western can really cut it in Nintendo terms, appealing lead character design aside.

Indeed. I think Nintendo in-house was very creative last generation, just not within traditional games (well, Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword aside), but their second and third party studios were able to put out an awful lot of new: Excitetruck/Bots, Hotel Dusk, Another Code, Sin & Punishment 2, Rhythm Heaven, Band Bros., Picross 3D, Xenoblade, Hydroventure, Bonsai Barber, The Last Story, Slide: MAG KID, and a lot more. These games were winners too, whereas Dillon's Rolling Western and Sakura Samurai were alright at best.

I think that's what Stu's longing for, and it's something I've missed as well -- especially so since third party titles on 3DS tend to be more traditional, with nothing like Space Invaders Extreme 2, Soul Bubbles, Clash of Heroes or Maestro: Jump in Music to fill in the release schedule.

This generation has seen Nintendo expand on what they've done (Wii Party U, Wii Fit U, Band Bros. P and Super Mario 3D World, DKC: Tropical Freeze), and those branching IP from second and third parties have largely faded away. HAL Labs and Intelligent Systems still put out Hakoboi! and Fallblox/Pullblox mind you, but it'd be nice to see a bigger pool of Nintendo published/funded games again.

That their new 'garage' initiative spawned Splatoon (and Hakoboi, I believe) is very encouraging, however. I think Ubisoft is doing something similar, since they quietly released Grow Home on PC, a pretty amazing 3D platformer that reminded me a lot of Super Mario 64/Sunshine. The difference here of course is that whatever comes out of Nintendo's garage initiative will be championed by the company with a large marketing budget and/or exposure, Grow Home sadly hasn't had any of that. But I highly recommend it.

@oldschool wrote:
Stu_the_great wrote:
@oldschool wrote:
They need to partner more with other companies to keep the flow going

Do you mean partnering as in Retro Studios and Monolith with their big DK or Xenoblade-type titles, or do you mean farm other franchises out to partner companies? As much as the latter has worked (in my two aforementioned cases), it's also been a right tatey hash in some cases. I'd argue that farming Star Fox out to Rare and then Namco (they did Assault, I recall. And the reviews suggested just that) destroyed any good grace that the franchise received from the outstanding Star Fox 64. And then there's the vitriol that Metroid: Other M receives to this day.

Well Retro and Monolith are 2nd party right?  I never understand this, mainly because I don't care enough to read up, but Nintendo owns a controlling share I thought.  I do mean complete outsider companies.  I don't have a problem with any of the games you mention, but it is important that Nintendo maintain an overarching control of the games, but I think someone who are good at making a certain type of game could make an excellent Nintendo franchise - just not the main series, such as Zelda.  I don't know who makes what games, again don't really care, but if a team who made Call of Duty wanted to make a huge Metroid, I would be okay with that.  So what if one turns out to be mediocre, the risk is worth it as long as it has some quality control by Nintendo.

Funny you bring up Retro. Playing through Prime Trilogy again made me want to look at the original's troubled development, and it's really interesting. The Story of Retro Studios: http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=267

The depressing thing is that Retro just isn't the studio it once was, with key members of staff leaving (or sadly passing away) and Nintendo's control over the studio's projects tightening. This piece does a good job of explaining how things have shifted, and I find it sad reading: http://nintendoenthusiast.com/article/retro-studios-may-not-be-the-same-studio-we-know-and-love/
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyTue 3 Mar 2015 - 15:32

@oldschool wrote:
Well Retro and Monolith are 2nd party right?  I never understand this, mainly because I don't care enough to read up, but Nintendo owns a controlling share I thought.  I do mean complete outsider companies.  I don't have a problem with any of the games you mention, but it is important that Nintendo maintain an overarching control of the games, but I think someone who are good at making a certain type of game could make an excellent Nintendo franchise - just not the main series, such as Zelda.  I don't know who makes what games, again don't really care, but if a team who made Call of Duty wanted to make a huge Metroid, I would be okay with that.  So what if one turns out to be mediocre, the risk is worth it as long as it has some quality control by Nintendo.

I'd rather have an oddball game that divides fans, like Metroid Prime did, than something developed turning out to simply be mediocre. As rehashed as many Nintendo games are, nobody can deny that to anyone that's never picked a game up before, they could be described as a "best game ever".

@fronkhead wrote:
Indeed. I think Nintendo in-house was very creative last generation, just not within traditional games (well, Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword aside), but their second and third party studios were able to put out an awful lot of new: Excitetruck/Bots, Hotel Dusk, Another Code, Sin & Punishment 2, Rhythm Heaven, Band Bros., Picross 3D, Xenoblade, Hydroventure, Bonsai Barber, The Last Story, Slide: MAG KID, and a lot more. These games were winners too, whereas Dillon's Rolling Western and Sakura Samurai were alright at best.

I think that's what Stu's longing for, and it's something I've missed as well -- especially so since third party titles on 3DS tend to be more traditional, with nothing like Space Invaders Extreme 2, Soul Bubbles, Clash of Heroes or Maestro: Jump in Music to fill in the release schedule.

This. This is exactly why the DS remains my favourite console of all time. Nintendo, and perhaps more importantly: second and third-party developers were experimenting like crazy during the DS' lifetime. It had a crazy shelf life by modern standards, and arguably many of the best games came about when Nintendo itself had largely wound its own support up. I have 365 DS games on my shelf. This is telling enough, but what's even more telling is just how many of those games are genuinely worth playing and marvelling over. Nothing this generation can hold a torch to this period in Nintendo's history, from a creative standpoint.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptySun 8 Mar 2015 - 11:13

Hmmm... I don't agree with what he says about Nintendo. I do know what he's saying about Future though, and have heard a similar story from at least two other former Future alumni. In the mid 2000s, the "suits" (as former GRUK editor Matt Cundy calls them) didn't really have a big input in some of the newer branches of the company - particularly websites; therefore the actual editorial staff were able to get on with things, much as the magazine staff of the previous decade were able to do so, so GamesRadar and CVG at this time were legendary, just as N64 magazine etc. had been previously (the Solve My Maze link you provided is evidence of that). Then they realised that these things were making money and creating interest, so people who had a job of making decisions started doing so. Suddenly the creative people (that "spoke to us") were being stymied, and everything became a bit sterile. Luckily that generation of bureaucrats have dissipated, and (what's left of) Future seems to have more creative freedom again.
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PostSubject: Re: Kittsy interview   Kittsy interview EmptyFri 20 Mar 2015 - 22:10

A bit late to the party, but as others have said it's clear the Kittsy wasn't exactly too fond of Future in the end. As Jimbob mentioned, when the Coporate Overlords get a whiff of a section that's making money, they swoop in and tell them how to do things even though they don't have a clue how the business works. Not unlike what started to bring about the demise of WCW (for the wrestling fans).
From what I can remember about Nick E saying about the wrap up to Nintendo Gamer, they literrally had a few weeks to get their shit together for the final issue, and they didn't mention to him when they brought him back on board that the plan was to close up shop in a couple of issues.

I don't agree with him that Nintendo should go down the third party route though, although I do wish they'd bring back F-Zero but I don't think they're milking the franchises the now.

Oh, and that Lex Luthor section! It's certainly made a lasting impression on me... It's things like that which are missing from games journalism these days. Adam Sessler had a sort of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrEVO1zJzds that sometimes came out in reviews, but he was genuinely interesting to watch. Now, there isn't many that capture the spirit of the old days. For those that were a part of 3DS Tribe, I remember how Nick pretty much told us to do what felt natural and roll with it. To me, it felt like we were getting the same free reign that Kittsy et al had back in the day. Hell, it was the thing that spurred me on to do the Nintendo 3DS Do's and Don'ts feature.
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