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Subject: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Tue 18 Jun 2019 - 20:06
Ever since it emerged that Pokémon Sword/Shield wouldn't contain every Pokémon at launch, some people have been disappointed and a tedious few have been vocally upset, especially (natch) on Twitter. But let's say, for the developers' and everybody else's sanity, that some Pokémon have to be scrapped. Forever. Which ones would they be?
The idea of this forum game/discussion thread is that we take Pokémon, generation by generation; and discuss which ones we'd bin, completely and utterly, for all further games and telly shows going forward. There won't be any point-scoring, but I'll keep a log of the ones that consensus seems to decide we get rid of.
You don't have to care about Pokémon to participate: you can make decisions on a whim based on which Pokémon look bobbins to you with no prior knowledge. The only thing I'd ask is that you're willing to consider binning Pokémon for the purpose of the thread. If you love all Pokémon so much you can't even countenance pretending to want to scrap some, we have another thread for that.
Let's start! Who would you get rid of forever out of the original 151 Pokémon?
I'll get the ball rolling by saying that I don't think there's any reason for Spearow and Fearow to exist any more. Ash didn't own them, and there are more interesting normal/flying types out there. They're taking up disc space. Time to get rid.
Dull brown birds:
Last edited by Balladeer on Thu 17 Oct 2019 - 20:56; edited 9 times in total
The Cappuccino Kid Baby Brush God
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Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Tue 18 Jun 2019 - 20:42
That's mad - I was thinking of starting a similar thread, although it was going to be called 'Who's The Fucking Shitest Pokemon Of Them All?'.
Posts : 13871 Points : 13205 Join date : 2013-01-21 Age : 26 Location : Courtroom No. 3 at 10am.
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Tue 18 Jun 2019 - 23:54
All Pokémon are precious. #BringBackTheNationalDexButOnlyAtTheHealthAndWellbeingOfTheDevTeam
In the spirit of the thread and our good forum though, I shall get involved.
Jynx is the correct answer. Even with the recolouring in later years, the racist roots of that Pokémon are unavoidable - and shouldn't be avoided, on that note. Even without that, it's just a shit design too.
I'm not a fan of Grimer and Muk. I feel that Koffing and Weezing did "pollution Pokémon" in a better way and had a much more interesting design to boot. I'm also not big on Tauros either. It's a bit dull. Just a bull, really.
Drunkalilly Centurion of Palutena
Posts : 11297 Points : 11435 Join date : 2013-02-25 Age : 29 Location : Nagano
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 19 Jun 2019 - 1:00
Disgusting. Unacceptable. No.
OrangeRakoon Disciple of Overton
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Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 19 Jun 2019 - 10:35
Ivysaur, Charmeleon, Wartortle
Starter middle evolutions are pointless and always the worst designs
Pidgeotto, Poliwhirl
On that note these can go too
Spearow, Fearow
Pidgey already got us covered, who actually chooses to use these?
Raichu
Evolving Pikachu is a crime, and Raichu is just plain worse
Nidoran(f), Nidorina, Nidoqueen
Combine these with the male line, just have them look different between male/female like is possible now
Golduck
Much like Pikachu, Psyduck should never change
Seel, Dewgong
These aren't pokemon they are animals
Grimer, Muk
Straight up rubbish (lol)
Electrode
Why does Voltorb evolve into a recoloured design? Scrap it
Exeggutor (original forme)
Alolan or bust
Jynx
It's racist
That's 19 dead pokemon, you're welcome
The Cappuccino Kid Baby Brush God
Posts : 4488 Points : 4605 Join date : 2013-02-25 Age : 100 Location : East of Mombasa
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 19 Jun 2019 - 17:00
Overthought this after a very slow and boring day at work:
Raichu might be fair game. You’d only evolve Pikachu for better stats, and even then, those stats aren’t great from what I remember. I like the psychic version of Raichu that uses its tail as a surfboard though, good design.
Muk is a beast in Pokemon Let’s Go though, learning loads of different moves. Muk was on my team, and he might have helped me through tough spots if the game weren’t so piss-easy. Grimer is totally rubbish. I think I stuck my Grimer in the daycare center, just so I didn’t have to battle with it.
I’m telling Onix to GTF. When you first fought it in Brock’s Gym, you thought that it was an absolute tank, and definitely something you wanted on your team. When you caught it though, you seen how terrible it’s stats were. Everybody can leather Onix, an absolute jobber Pokemon. At least Rattata learns Hyper Fang and Pidgey gets Fly – what does Onix have? Strength? Wanker move. What a disappointment.
I think Zubat is rubbish as well, only existing to pad out RBY’s many, many caves. It’s very unlikeable too. Team Rocket Grunts never use good cunt Pokemon like Snorlax and Charizard, instead just using the Pokemon that you’re all right to hate. I think Ekans, Arbok, Koffing and Weezing get away with it because of the anime, but Zubat doesn’t. And: Supersonic. What a pain in the arse.
Venonat and Paras, who in Greek buggery had them or their evolutions on their team? And: Spore moves. What a pain in the arse.
Do we need Ponyta? Fire Horse is a magic idea, but there’s a better one, Rapidash. Just have that.
Getting rid of Slowpoke and Slowbro might be unpopular suggestions here, and I like their funny designs too. But you’re never having them on your team at the expense of Squirtle, Lapras, Staryu or any number of water Pokemon from the first gen. Although, in fairness, I really like the way you have to evolve Slowpoke in Pokemon Snap on the N64, clever stuff.
I might have said Omanyte and Omastar could be binned too, but they get off because of the Lord Helix stuff. You might disagree though.
Lastly, Diglett. I liked Diglett when I thought that it’s nose was it’s mouth, but know that I know it’s nose is it’s nose, I hate his stupid face.
Balladeer I'M EVEN LONELIER
Posts : 20813 Points : 19774 Join date : 2013-01-16 Age : 30 Location : Admintown
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 19 Jun 2019 - 20:01
Jynx is the correct answer. Even with the recolouring in later years, the racist roots of that Pokémon are unavoidable - and shouldn't be avoided, on that note. Even without that, it's just a shit design too.
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Jynx
It's racist
Natch. She was too obvious for me to go for as the first one, but she was obviously the first one I thought of. Terrible terrible idea.
Everyone wrote:
Grimer and Muk (also Diglett Exeggutor Raichu)
I've grouped these together because, after consideration, I think I'd get rid of all their default forms and keep the Alolan ones as default. Who thinks Diglett or Grimer are good designs these days? Meanwhile Exeggutor, Raichu, and Golem are alright, but the Alolan versions are just straight up better than their counterparts. I'd keep original Meowth/Persian and Rattata/Raticate but give them dark type, and keep original Marowak because ghost/fire's a step too far, but the others? Get rid.
JayMoyles wrote:
I'm also not big on Tauros either. It's a bit dull. Just a bull, really.
I can get behind this. Low-effort monster who also gives me trauma from trying to catch the shiter in the Safari Zone. Also an opportunity to get rid of its dodgy counterpart next generation.
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Ivysaur, Charmeleon, Wartortle
Starter middle evolutions are pointless and always the worst designs
Pidgeotto, Poliwhirl
On that note these can go too
Nut. You need to struggle through the mediocrity to feel the reward of reaching the top level. Your starter grows with you, and the medium stage comes at just the right time to make you feel powerful early-game.
Same applies for Pidgeotto. As for Poliwhirl, I'd get rid of Poliwrath instead and keep Politoed as the only evolution. It gets a bit angrier - great design chaps. (slow clap) Also, what's with a tadpole 'Mon that doesn't evolve into a frog? That's just silly.
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Spearow, Fearow
Pidgey already got us covered, who actually chooses to use these?
I agree, funnily enough.
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Nidoran(f), Nidorina, Nidoqueen
Combine these with the male line, just have them look different between male/female like is possible now
This is a good shout, but get rid of the male versions because #fuckthepatriarchy. Also: change Mr. Mime's stupid gender-ignoring name.
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Golduck
Much like Pikachu, Psyduck should never change
Psyduck is weak as bobbins and needs an evolution.
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Seel, Dewgong
These aren't pokemon they are animals
Yep, there are better seal Pokémon down the line.
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Electrode
Why does Voltorb evolve into a recoloured design? Scrap it
Very well played to Cappa for all his content. Hooray for boredom! Or something.
The Cappuccino Kid wrote:
I’m telling Onix to GTF. When you first fought it in Brock’s Gym, you thought that it was an absolute tank, and definitely something you wanted on your team. When you caught it though, you seen how terrible it’s stats were. Everybody can leather Onix, an absolute jobber Pokemon. At least Rattata learns Hyper Fang and Pidgey gets Fly – what does Onix have? Strength? Wanker move. What a disappointment.
But what about that hilarious time when you fight a young couple with a Cloyster and an... yeah, scrap it. Steelix too, it looks dopey as.
The Cappuccino Kid wrote:
I think Zubat is rubbish as well, only existing to pad out RBY’s many, many caves. It’s very unlikeable too. Team Rocket Grunts never use good cunt Pokemon like Snorlax and Charizard, instead just using the Pokemon that you’re all right to hate. I think Ekans, Arbok, Koffing and Weezing get away with it because of the anime, but Zubat doesn’t. And: Supersonic. What a pain in the arse.
I can't believe I'm going in to bat for Zubat, but... I like its evolutions, and they have to start somewhere. About 75% of all Zubats can be culled, but I need my Golbats for grinding late-game, and my Crobats for being hilarious floppy purple shurikens that are somehow lightning fast.
The Cappuccino Kid wrote:
Venonat and Paras, who in Greek buggery had them or their evolutions on their team? And: Spore moves. What a pain in the arse.
I had a Venonat in Let's Go because it was the happiest little purple blob! The animation really made that one. Paras can get stuffed, there are better mushroom 'mons now.
The Cappuccino Kid wrote:
Do we need Ponyta? Fire Horse is a magic idea, but there’s a better one, Rapidash. Just have that.
Ponyta is... kind of a mediocre design, but Rapidash is too majestic to come from nowhere. I'm on Team Keep the Horse, but I don't feel strongly about it.
The Cappuccino Kid wrote:
Getting rid of Slowpoke and Slowbro might be unpopular suggestions here, and I like their funny designs too. But you’re never having them on your team at the expense of Squirtle, Lapras, Staryu or any number of water Pokemon from the first gen. Although, in fairness, I really like the way you have to evolve Slowpoke in Pokemon Snap on the N64, clever stuff.
I might have said Omanyte and Omastar could be binned too, but they get off because of the Lord Helix stuff. You might disagree though.
I'm defending both of these two, although the Omas more because I like their origins (ammonites) and because I liked the 'pick a fossil' dynamic from the early games than for any other reason. Slowpokes are funny though. I wrote a fanfiction about a Slowpoke.
A couple of other ideas: does anybody actually like Magmar, or its other forms? I think they're hideous. I know Game Freak were trying to go for a duck-garuda hybrid, but to think that Red owners got the cool-looking Electabuzz and Blue owners got a flaming butt makes me seethe. What else...
Drunkalilly wrote:
Disgusting. Unacceptable. No.
...thanks for reminding me! Krabby and Kingler.
OrangeRakoon wrote:
These aren't pokemon they are animals
The Cappuccino Kid Baby Brush God
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Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 19 Jun 2019 - 20:09
Magmar was my favourite Pokemon in RBY! I trained one up to level 100, without Rare Candies too. Him, Venasaur and Cloyster. I'll hear no bad words about any of them!
OrangeRakoon Disciple of Overton
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Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Thu 20 Jun 2019 - 10:07
The Cappuccino Kid wrote:
Venonat and Paras, who in Greek buggery had them or their evolutions on their team? And: Spore moves. What a pain in the arse.
Getting rid of Slowpoke and Slowbro might be unpopular suggestions here, and I like their funny designs too. But you’re never having them on your team at the expense of Squirtle, Lapras, Staryu or any number of water Pokemon from the first gen.
My Elite Four beating team in Let's Go Pikachu had both a parasect and a slowbro on it - two of my favourite pokemon! Parasect is literally a mushroom that has taken over the mind of a bug, that's rad. It also has the cutest wiggle, combined with Spore and leech life and whatever to make it Genuinely Good.
Slowpoke/Slowbro are just plain iconic, although my real love admittedly is for Slowking - but evolving it up is part of the appeal!
masofdas Disciple of Aonuma
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Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Thu 20 Jun 2019 - 11:55
Raichu is the best (I'm not a Pikachu fan)
Farfetch'd, Tangela, Jynx, can all go
Athrun888 Sheegoth
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Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Fri 21 Jun 2019 - 13:17
The only correct answer is: Your favourites. All of them. Everyones. No mercy or compassion. Every favourite must be dusted now that they're Thanosing the Pokedex. It is the only way to achieve perfect balance.
Honestly I'd keep the full original 151. Even the s***e ones like Weedle are iconic. If I had to throw some in the bin I'd go with Farfetch'd, Jynx. Those two serve no purpose, to the point that Jynx was completely ignored when it came time to give her two peers evolutions in gen 4.
Crumpy Andy Baby Brush God
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Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Fri 21 Jun 2019 - 16:28
To be fair there’s a reason I enjoyed Black and White more than any other Pokemon game since R&S. Bin em all
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JayMoyles Din's Power
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Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Fri 21 Jun 2019 - 23:51
masofdas wrote:
Tangela
Yeah, I could get behind this. Not a fan of Tangela - its evolution is pretty pants, too.
Balladeer I'M EVEN LONELIER
Posts : 20813 Points : 19774 Join date : 2013-01-16 Age : 30 Location : Admintown
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Sat 22 Jun 2019 - 10:04
+1 for Tangela. Originally it had the niche of being a pure grass type: now lots of Pokémon are and it just looks bobbins.
I'm going to defend Farfetch'd. It's just so... daft and pointless. I'd love it to get an evolution, but right now it's just a weird throwback, and I like the occasional weird throwback. It's better than chuffing Dunsparce.
Athrun and Andy's viewpoints basically cancel out. What about Mr. Mime? It's pretty horrendous and creepy, Detective Pikachu role aside.
Will probably move onto Gen. 2 tomorrow, unless anyone has any objections?
Drunkalilly Centurion of Palutena
Posts : 11297 Points : 11435 Join date : 2013-02-25 Age : 29 Location : Nagano
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Sat 22 Jun 2019 - 15:02
Balladeer wrote:
Will probably move onto Gen. 2 tomorrow, unless anyone has any objections?
Oh, son. I've got some objections.
Spearow and Fearow:
Fearow is a much more interesting design than Pidgey!
Balladeer wrote:
Ash didn't own them, and there are more interesting normal/flying types out there. They're taking up disc space. Time to get rid.
Ash owning a Pokemon shouldn't be key to their relevance - a big part of the appeal of Pokemon is self-customisation, so variety is always key. That said, even if Mr Ketchum himself never owned them, they had a totes iconic appearance in the very first episode of the anime!
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Pidgey already got us covered, who actually chooses to use these?
Me? Lots of people? You're not the arbiter of which Pokemon get used!
Jynx:
I'm actually inclined to agree with this one, but I'm also not sure that sweeping the character under the rug is the right response. Does it sufficiently own up to the mistake or would it be more appropriate to, in a diminished role of course, keep the character around and open a dialogue? Obviously nobody here is actually equipped to answer that one, but watch this space: I'm getting some guests and stuff together to do this subject justice on LLP.
JayMoyles wrote:
All Pokémon are precious. #BringBackTheNationalDexButOnlyAtTheHealthAndWellbeingOfTheDevTeam
Good man! Nice to see someone else speak out.
JayMoyles wrote:
In the spirit of the thread and our good forum though, I shall get involved.
You rat fucking coward.
Grimer and Muk:
JayMoyles wrote:
I feel that Koffing and Weezing did "pollution Pokémon" in a better way and had a much more interesting design to boot.
I don't think we can use "another Pokemon does a vaguely similar thing" as a reason. Besides, pollution is a big issue and each new monster tackles a different kind.
Cappa wrote:
Muk is a beast in Pokemon Let’s Go though, learning loads of different moves. Muk was on my team, and he might have helped me through tough spots if the game weren’t so piss-easy. Grimer is totally rubbish. I think I stuck my Grimer in the daycare center, just so I didn’t have to battle with it.
Quoted partly to boost the Muk love and also to defend Grimer. Starting with the little cute monster and nurturing it into a beast is a big part of the appeal of Pokemon! On that note . . .
Middle evolutions:
Nah. For starters, Wartortle is the most mythologically interesting of the Squirtle line. But also, levelling up a Pokemon and seeing it evolve bit by bit is the reward loop we're all here for! In an ideal world, we'd have more and more incremental developments, level by level, so Pokemon grew like real animals.
Cappa wrote:
Do we need Ponyta? Fire Horse is a magic idea, but there’s a better one, Rapidash. Just have that.
See above.
Raichu:
Raichu is cooler than Pikachu and Pichu, especially if we take Alolan Raichu into account. Plus Pikachu is already infuriatingly over-represented. Removing the evolution would just shove him down our throats even more!
Kanto Formes:
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Exeggutor (original forme)
Alolan or bust
The Bugger Man wrote:
I think I'd get rid of all their default forms and keep the Alolan ones as default.
This doesn't work for me. The Alolan forms work so well as a mirror and a response to the original Pokemon, a commentary if you will. To eliminate the context which birthed them would neuter them!
Nidoran:
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Combine these with the male line, just have them look different between male/female like is possible now
I would be all for making the two Nidorans just take up one pokedex number, but it's a pretty moot point.
Golduck:
I love Psyduck, but Golduck is a cool Kappa and I've got a lot of time for him.
Seel and Dewgong:
OrangeRacoon wrote:
These aren't pokemon they are animals
Cute, beautiful huggable animals! And natural water/ ice types without even needing any embellishments. And with cool unicorn horns!
Electrode:
Nah, look at that smirk! What a dude. He needs to stay.
Onix:
The Cappuccino Kid wrote:
I’m telling Onix to GTF. When you first fought it in Brock’s Gym, you thought that it was an absolute tank, and definitely something you wanted on your team. When you caught it though, you seen how terrible it’s stats were. Everybody can leather Onix, an absolute jobber Pokemon. At least Rattata learns Hyper Fang and Pidgey gets Fly – what does Onix have? Strength? Wanker move. What a disappointment.
I could accept these as arguments for why Onix should be buffed, but culling it seems incredibly excessive. The design is really cool, and seeing ym first big Onix in the overworld in Lets Go was a totally hype moment. Sure, it leaves a lot to be desired statistically but there is much more to a good Pokemon than that. Visually, personality and lore-wise, Onix is really cool.
Zubat:
I never minded the whole Zubat in caves thing. They're so weak and every Pokemon has a move that can take them out, so they're great EXP fodder. And then eventually you get Crobat, who's a good fast bat.
Venonat and Paras:
Venomoth is a cool and pretty nifty bug-type, while Paras is a delightfully creepy and interesting monster.
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Parasect is literally a mushroom that has taken over the mind of a bug, that's rad. It also has the cutest wiggle, combined with Spore and leech life and whatever to make it Genuinely Good.
Exactly.
Slowpoke et al:
The Kid wrote:
Getting rid of Slowpoke and Slowbro might be unpopular suggestions here, and I like their funny designs too. But you’re never having them on your team at the expense of Squirtle, Lapras, Staryu or any number of water Pokemon from the first gen.
Actually, Slowbro was the dominant force in the competitive scene for the first couple of generations, and came back in a big way with its mega evolution too. I hate that I've become someone who knows this shit, but after you tried to bring down Onix on account of its stats earlier, I think I'm justified in mentioning stats alongside the fact that these two are I*C*O*N*I*C
Diglett:
Cappa wrote:
Lastly, Diglett. I liked Diglett when I thought that it’s nose was it’s mouth, but know that I know it’s nose is it’s nose, I hate his stupid face.
Huh. I've heard the mouth thing brought up as a joke, but I never knew anyone who really thought that as a kid! Yeah, I can understand the nose thing being disappointing but you've got to know you're alone here right? Diglett is top bantz.
Tauros:
Balladeer wrote:
JayMoyles wrote:
I'm also not big on Tauros either. It's a bit dull. Just a bull, really.
I can get behind this. Low-effort monster who also gives me trauma from trying to catch the shiter in the Safari Zone. Also an opportunity to get rid of its dodgy counterpart next generation.
I like these Pokemon well enough, but even if I didn't I have to fight you on this one. As in, if you try to hurt either Tauros or Miltank I will fly back to the UK and physically force you to cease and desist. You see, cows are Shen's favourite animals and she loves these 'mons!
Magmar:
Bobbins Boy wrote:
does anybody actually like Magmar,
The Cappuccino Kid wrote:
Magmar was my favourite Pokemon in RBY! I trained one up to level 100, without Rare Candies too
I'd say that's you pretty much told . . .
Tangela:
Its weird and rare and unique . . . I've got a lot of time for this one! I also have a soft spot for Greek myth, and the little Medusa connection helps. Apparently, Tangrowth was actually a bit of a beast once it got the Regenerator ability as well.
Farfetch'd:
A fun little gag of a Pokemon which started me down the road of Pokemon making me interested in Japan and basically set me on the course which has defined my life for the past 22 years and lead to me living my actual dreams. Plus, its obscure pointlessness is kind of the point . . .
Mr Mime:
Balladeer wrote:
It's pretty horrendous and creepy
Wait . . . those are your arguments against?
Balladeer wrote:
Detective Pikachu role aside.
That scene is really funny, though.
Balladeer wrote:
The only thing I'd ask is that you're willing to consider binning Pokémon for the purpose of the thread.
Drunkalilly Centurion of Palutena
Posts : 11297 Points : 11435 Join date : 2013-02-25 Age : 29 Location : Nagano
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Sat 22 Jun 2019 - 15:03
I hope y'all appreciated that. I had plans tonight and its now 11pm and I've done nothing. Felt good though.
Balladeer I'M EVEN LONELIER
Posts : 20813 Points : 19774 Join date : 2013-01-16 Age : 30 Location : Admintown
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Sun 23 Jun 2019 - 12:59
And that's the important thing! Anyway, looking at those who haven't wanted to bin 'em all or bin none of 'em and have entered into the spirit of the thread, I think we have the list below of people getting booted out the 'Dex from Gen. 1:
with the others all being disputed or only one person getting behind them. (For Raichu I'm including Shanks' out-of-thread defence as well as Mas' in-thread one.)
Gen. 2! Which of the Pokémon introduced in Gold and Silver can get the feck in the bin?
Here are some suggestions to start off:
Sunkern and Sunflora's biggest claim to fame is because their stats. are bobbins. That says a lot about them. Get rid.
Steelix is out be default because Onix is out, unless people strongly disagree.
Miltank is just weird. It's just a cow, but it's best known for making 'mon fall in love with it and rolling all over them. Also it's the counterpart for Tauros, and we binned Tauros.
What about youse blokes?
Last edited by Balladeer on Mon 24 Jun 2019 - 19:47; edited 1 time in total
JayMoyles Din's Power
Posts : 13871 Points : 13205 Join date : 2013-01-21 Age : 26 Location : Courtroom No. 3 at 10am.
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Sun 23 Jun 2019 - 15:43
Drunkalilly wrote:
JayMoyles wrote:
All Pokémon are precious. #BringBackTheNationalDexButOnlyAtTheHealthAndWellbeingOfTheDevTeam
Good man! Nice to see someone else speak out.
JayMoyles wrote:
In the spirit of the thread and our good forum though, I shall get involved.
You rat fucking coward.
In regards to Gen. II... I'm fond of nearly all of these guys! The only one I would potentially bin is Smoochum due to the Jynx connection, of course, but due to the fact that it's also pretty damn creepy. I was almost tempted to say Ursaring purely as a troll move and to incur The Wrath of Luke, but that's a cool bear so I couldn't think of a decent reason, even as a joke.
I'll defend some of the 'Mon you've mentioned Balla:
Sunkern/Sunflora - We all need our jobbers in life. These Pokémon are your Barry Horowitzes, your Heath Slaters, your fall guys. Plus, seed into flower is a neat concept.
Miltank - That Whitney battle is iconic. Getting hammered by Rollout was a moment of learning for us all.
Drunkalilly Centurion of Palutena
Posts : 11297 Points : 11435 Join date : 2013-02-25 Age : 29 Location : Nagano
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 24 Jun 2019 - 0:12
Balladeer wrote:
Anyway, looking at those who haven't wanted to bin 'em all or bin none of 'em, . . . with the others all being disputed or only one person getting behind them.
Ahem. I agreed that Jynx should probably go. I'm therefore not someone who thinks they should all stay. Ergo, the other Pokemon you list as "undisputed" were in fact disputed by me.
Athrun888 Sheegoth
Posts : 3577 Points : 3624 Join date : 2013-01-26 Location : Ridin' ma SPACE HORSE ON A SPACESHIP!
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 24 Jun 2019 - 11:21
Ah gen 2, my favourite gen. But at the same time there is loads of crap that could be jettisoned without a second thought. My Snap is dusting the following!
-Sentret/Furret: Tedious, useless, ripoffs of Rattata. They have awful stats, look meh, and add nothing to the games not called Gold and Silver.
-Hoothoot/Noctowl: See Sentret.
-Sunkern/Sunflora: See Sentret. Also see their designs. Nobody likes these useless Pokemon, not even as memes. They're anti-memes, the memes you use when you want to meme making an ironic meme of another ironic meme.
-Dunsparce: this thing should go purely because of how utterly useless it is. Remember first finding one early on, catching it, then using it thinking it'd become something amazing down the road only to have it waste your time and valuable exp? Yeah, either give it an evolution or give it the boot!
-Corsola: I'm tempted to let this one be as it's my go-to response whenever someone says "name me a Pokemon I can't remember", but honestly it's just pathetic. Looks ugly, plays ugly, it's just bad.
-Smoochum: Everyone basically agreed to give Jynx the flick, so why keep its baby around?
-Lugia: "OOGH, LUGIA'S SO COOL!" The words of casuals everywhere after that damned movie in 2000. Where's the Ho-Oh love? The superior bird, nay, the only bird that should exist! You have no need for the overrated surfbird with a literal phoenix around. Bin it.
Beyond all of those I feel gen 2 is solid. The rubbish is super bad, but the rest is either great or gives Johto some character.
OrangeRakoon Disciple of Overton
Posts : 1059 Points : 1062 Join date : 2015-05-06 Age : 27 Location : Reading, UK
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 24 Jun 2019 - 11:51
Athrun888 wrote:
-Sentret/Furret: Tedious, useless, ripoffs of Rattata. They have awful stats, look meh, and add nothing to the games not called Gold and Silver.
Get the hell out of here
Have you /seen/ how big Furret is??
JayMoyles Din's Power
Posts : 13871 Points : 13205 Join date : 2013-01-21 Age : 26 Location : Courtroom No. 3 at 10am.
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 24 Jun 2019 - 20:18
Another round of defences from me.
Athrun888 wrote:
-Sentret/Furret: Tedious, useless, ripoffs of Rattata.
Nope nope nope. Cuddly and lovely lads, those two. Comparing them to disgusting rat boys is a true disservice.
Athrun888 wrote:
Hoothoot/Noctowl
Whilst there are cuter owls in the series now, I love Hoothoot still. He's basically an owl balloon. I also thought for years that he only had one leg and I felt sorry for him because of that. Noctowl is a wise Kaepora Gaebora type without the screeds of text.
Athrun888 wrote:
Dunsparce
Loveable goof. He looks silly but he owns it. He stays.
Athrun888 wrote:
Lugia
Lugia felt genuinely mythical to me, more so than any other legendary at the time. He was squirelled away in some islands and looked rad to boot. The movie helped, but that's just the anime doing its job then. No legendary so far deserves the boot, and that's no different with Lugia.
Balladeer I'M EVEN LONELIER
Posts : 20813 Points : 19774 Join date : 2013-01-16 Age : 30 Location : Admintown
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 24 Jun 2019 - 20:34
Drunkalilly wrote:
Ahem. I agreed that Jynx should probably go. I'm therefore not someone who thinks they should all stay. Ergo, the other Pokemon you list as "undisputed" were in fact disputed by me.
Apologies, edited.
JayMoyles wrote:
The only one I would potentially bin is Smoochum due to the Jynx connection, of course, but due to the fact that it's also pretty damn creepy.
Athrun888 wrote:
-Smoochum: Everyone basically agreed to give Jynx the flick, so why keep its baby around?
Natch.
JayMoyles wrote:
Miltank - That Whitney battle is iconic. Getting hammered by Rollout was a moment of learning for us all.
I can't really argue with that, although I still don't think it's a great design. Unless you're Nursey from Blackadder.
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Athrun888 wrote:
-Sentret/Furret: Tedious, useless, ripoffs of Rattata. They have awful stats, look meh, and add nothing to the games not called Gold and Silver.
Get the hell out of here
Have you /seen/ how big Furret is??
I... am... very torn. I'm going to go in to bat to defend Linoone next generation, and Furret offers less than its fellow mustelid from a 'normal-type rodent' point of view. On the other hand, its design is pretty cool, and it did a meme. Abstain.
Athrun888 wrote:
-Hoothoot/Noctowl: See Sentret.
Yep, there are better normal/flying types. If Noctowl was psychic/flying like it should have been I'd have been interested. It's not.
Athrun888 wrote:
-Dunsparce: this thing should go purely because of how utterly useless it is. Remember first finding one early on, catching it, then using it thinking it'd become something amazing down the road only to have it waste your time and valuable exp? Yeah, either give it an evolution or give it the boot!
Dunsparce has one thing going for it: its origins in the tsuchinoko. However it's a bad version of the tsuchinoko that Yo-Kai Watch, of all franchises, puts to shame. Get rid of this abomination.
Athrun888 wrote:
-Corsola: I'm tempted to let this one be as it's my go-to response whenever someone says "name me a Pokemon I can't remember", but honestly it's just pathetic. Looks ugly, plays ugly, it's just bad.
It does have one thing going for it, and that's the relationship with Mareanie in Sun/Moon. The fact that you have to chain-battle Corsola to find a Mareanie, which then spends all its time eating the Corsola, is priceless. That aside, bin. Mareanie ain't all that either.
Athrun888 wrote:
-Lugia: "OOGH, LUGIA'S SO COOL!" The words of casuals everywhere after that damned movie in 2000. Where's the Ho-Oh love? The superior bird, nay, the only bird that should exist! You have no need for the overrated surfbird with a literal phoenix around. Bin it.
There will come a day when I strike a legendary off the list for being appallingly designed (Jay's wrong, no monster should be protected just because they appear on a box). Today is not that day. Ho-Oh's better, but Lugia's still cool.
Couple of other suggestions: - Pineco and Forretress. Pineco looks like Banjo and Kazooie got their hands on a pinecone, and Forretress... just no. - Aipom, the least cute monkey there has ever been. The smile alone is enough to give me nightmares. - Qwilfish joins the cavalcade of mediocre fish designs. We'll find worse, but I really don't see what it adds and feel it's taking up space. - Finally, if somebody could tell me what lumps of molten useless goop Slugma and Magcargo add to the world I'll be happy to listen, but they're terrible 'Mon with mediocre designs and Magcargo in particular has a typing that can only be reasonably termed, 'a mistake'.
Jimbob Dry Metal Baby Princess
Posts : 3456 Points : 3478 Join date : 2013-01-15 Age : 37 Location : Milton Keynes
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Tue 25 Jun 2019 - 20:50
Blimey! Yeah, the Gen 2 Pokemon are pretty good (I missed the Gen 1 cull). Athers' point on Smoochum I'd agree with - if we universally get rid of Jynx, it'd create a weird paradox, so it needs to go. And I don't like Dunsparce - I know what it's based on etc., but it looks a bit bleh. But all the others are great! I won't hear bad words about Hoothoot I tells ya.
Actually, I think Unown causes too many greater philosophical problems and should be eradicated. Or it should evolve into Unicown, and come in several thousand varieties.
That might be the cleverest thing I have ever said
Balladeer I'M EVEN LONELIER
Posts : 20813 Points : 19774 Join date : 2013-01-16 Age : 30 Location : Admintown
Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 26 Jun 2019 - 21:01
You know what, I agree about Unown (although I don't get the pun). In Gold and Silver they had the whole lore thing surrounding them and the Unown radio and it was all pretty cool... since then they've been utterly useless, with one unpredictable move and lousy stats. and only serving to make true Pokédex completion more annoying (since you need all twenty-chuffing-eight forms). Give them an improved form, or bin. GSC are still in existence.
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The animation really made that one. Paras can get stuffed, there are better mushroom 'mons now.
What about Mr. Mime? It's pretty horrendous and creepy, Detective Pikachu role aside.
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