Jay's PS4 and the Aftermath

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

2015 has been a dreadful year for Nintendo in Europe, and I can't believe that it's big Christmas game is going to be an identikit sequel to the quite ordinary and near-forgotten Mario Tennis Open.

Based on the quality of its prequel, XCX definitely deserves to be the Big Christmas Game, in general albeit not for someone who's not fond of the genre.  

As for classics, I can name Bayo 2, Pikmin 3, MK8, SSBU and Mario Maker off the top of my head as future classics.  That's five games without trying to think, with that many again when I try to think, and then the usual allowance for subjectivity to expand the list beyond that.  

We're probably not going to get the same number of classics as we did on some of the past Nintendo consoles, but let's not exaggerate here: the Wii U has had some fine games.  It has at least three more absolute stonkers to come (I'm talking 10/10s if SF0 uses the delay to full advantage).  It's quite possibly still in the best position of the generation's home consoles, albeit it had a year's head-start and it's unlikely to stay there for long.  

I agree that overall the console's been a disappointment, but let's not do "the Internet thing" of painting it the blackest shade of black as a result.  It's a darkish grey. /

Drunkalilly wrote:

I can't imagine having spent the past year or two as a videogame enthusiast without my PS3, XBox or laptop.

That's how I've spent the last few years as a videogame enthusiast (of sorts). I've never played Minecraft, or GTA V, or Diablo III or anything like that, because I've by choice been treated to such belters as Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric and Game Party Champions. I'd always hoped that the Wii U would turn out to be like the N64 (little third-party support but loads of Triple-A classics), but it didn't happen, and it's impossible to imagine that it will in late 2015 and in 2016.

Balladeer wrote:

Based on the quality of its prequel, XCX definitely deserves to be the Big Christmas Game, in general albeit not for someone who's not fond of the genre.  

As for classics, I can name Bayo 2, Pikmin 3, MK8, SSBU and Mario Maker off the top of my head as future classics.  That's five games without trying to think, with that many again when I try to think, and then the usual allowance for subjectivity to expand the list beyond that.  

We're probably not going to get the same number of classics as we did on some of the past Nintendo consoles, but let's not exaggerate here: the Wii U has had some fine games.  It has at least three more absolute stonkers to come (I'm talking 10/10s if SF0 uses the delay to full advantage).  It's quite possibly still in the best position of the consoles, albeit it had a year's head-start and it's unlikely to stay there for long.  

I agree that overall the console's been a disappointment, but let's not do "the Internet thing" of painting it the blackest shade of black as a result.  It's a darkish grey.

Forgot about Xenoblade. It's not been on my radar at all, like FIFA 16 wouldn't have been on yours. I'm not ruling out any game that has that sort of potential though.

I'd agree that Mario Kart 8, Smash and Super Mario Maker are classics. Pikmin 3 was brilliant too. I haven't given Bayonetta 2 much of a chance so I can't really comment (though I feel that's the best argument I feel I have for sticking with the Wii U alone; to go back and take some time to complete Bayonetta 2, Hyrule Warriors, The Wonderful 101 and the handful of others that I dingied prematurely). I also gave Funky Barn 6/10 in the reviews thread.

It's had some very fine games indeed. Yet they've been quite few and far between. 2015, in my opinion, really has been a dud, with some middling efforts scattered in between the 'pretty good' likes of Kirby Rainbow Powerbrush and Captain Toad. That was the lot until last week. Still, I've probably had more entertainment from the Wii U than anyone reading - I think I've got more than mas's 59 games - but that said it's had it's day, in my view. I'll be getting Animal Crossing amiibo Festival, Rodea The Sky Soldier, Pokken Tournament and whatever else, but this is hardly vintage Nintendo at their creative and artistic peak. There's nothing on the way that I find awfully exciting.

I don't think anyone minds you chatting about your views on the Wii U, Cappa. It's great to see discussion anywhere on the forum also its good to see from yourself & Zero, I'm not the only one unhappy with the Wii U.

It's a fine second console but I could never be a Nintendo only gamer now, as you put games have been few and far between and with the Wii U being so-so & the Wii not being for me, the NX has to be truly special for me to consider it.

But hey if Zelda is a launch title for it, then I'm sold.

Agreed that if we're talking personally for you, Cappa, there's no reason to consider XCX, and plenty of reason to consider a PS4.  I reckon that if you're into every genre, there's quite a decent amount of classics on the Wii U, but if you're not (I'm not) there's much more of a limited choice.  (The next five classics, I reckon, would be Splatoon, SM3DW, HW, Rayman Legends, and Zombii U.  Excluding Bayo 1, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, and WWHD as ports or recreations.  Incidentally, of the ten classics I've mentioned, I've only really enjoyed 4, and I've not played much of 3.)

Also agreed that 2015 so far has been a stinker, with Splatoon the only true classic released this year until XCX (happy to be contradicted).  They've definitely started winding down the Wii U far earlier than they should have done, especially on the software front.  (You mention the N64 - I reckon they should have got Platinum to fulfil a Rare-style role.)  

Ah well.  I'll be doing a big Wii U votey thingy in a month and a bit; hopefully that'll highlight some of the good points of this much-maligned console, as well as the bad ones.  I reckon history will look back more kindly on the console as well - who'd have thought that Luigi's Mansion would be considered a classic when it released, and we were all moaning about its length/it not being a Mario game?

Actually, if I only had a wii u I'd have happily played splatoon 24/7 so I take it all back.

Completely agree Cappa. I sold my Wii-U last month because I just wasn’t playing it. I’ve enjoyed many a game on the system, but nine times out of ten, I’d just play it on the Gamepad for an hour, once or twice a week. Outside of Bayonetta 2, practically all of the games I played/owned felt like handheld titles (albeit very pretty ones). Pikmin 3, Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros, hell I even sunk 60 hours into Advance Wars on the Gamepad alone. I picked up Captain Toad and Kirby’s Rainbow Paintbrush the day they were released, and they just felt so ‘bitty’ and ‘shallow’. It’s hard to explain, but they weren’t games I’d dedicate an evening to in front of the TV. I’ve actually ended up buying a 360 this year (my fourth no less), and discovered some fantastic, cheap games from last-gen (stuff like Just Cause 2, Plants vs. Zombies, The Walking Dead) that feel like proper games. And I know there’s proper games on the Wii-U, but they are so few and far between that if you don’t get along with some of them (such as Wonderful 101), then the choices are even more limited. I think the Wii-U has also suffered this year by having Kirby and Yoshi games (2D platformers) as major releases, when on the N64 or Gamecube, these would have complemented the major releases. The gaps could (and should) have been filled by stuff like Wave Race, 1080, F-Zero, Mario Golf, Paper Mario etc. Lack of EA was a big blow too, as much as some hate on FIFA.

I'll be picking up a PS4 next year, and an NX too if it's going to be another secondary system. As much as I admire (and ultimately love) Nintendo for their innovation and doing things their way, all I really want is a powerful console akin to the Xbox/Playstation, but with Nintendo franchises and a normal controller out the box.

...Could that not be just because you chose to play these games on the gamepad? Off-TV play is a great asset, but if you use primarily that and ignore the TV, you do risk tricking yourself into a handheld mentality through your own fault.

I'm not saying there aren't bitty games. I completely get your point on KPP and CTTT, and on this year's offerings. But with games like MK8 and Smash (I haven't played enough Pikmin 3 to comment), I reckon that you only feel they're handheld games because you choose to play them on the gamepad. They definitely feel like home console titles to me.


Also, does anyone else feel that this discussion could do better being moved elsewhere? It's not really about the PS4 Jay bought any more. Perhaps split from Jay's post onwards into a different thread? It's a very good discussion, mind, just arguably in the wrong place.

gjones wrote:

I'll be picking up a PS4 next year, and an NX too if it's going to be another secondary system. As much as I admire (and ultimately love) Nintendo for their innovation and doing things their way, all I really want is a powerful console akin to the Xbox/Playstation, but with Nintendo franchises and a normal controller out the box.

I just can't see that happening the N64 like Cappa pointed out did get 3rd party games but not many but thankfully RARE along with the Big N brought out plenty there self's. The Cube did get plenty of 3rd party and is the nearest to what your asking for but in-till now was Nintendo worst selling home console hence the blue ocean and the Wii which did get 3rd party games but mainly shovelware with a few bigger name titles like a COD but really that was just due to the sheer number of Wii's out there.

Same went for the Wii U we got 3rd party games and it being on par with PS360 and them still going, inferior should of got loads of games but with such a small install base why bother bringing games to the Wii U.

I can see the NX having a few issues as if it's the same as a PS4 & XBONE what's the point of it to Joe Bloggs if he already has a PS4 and can play FIFA 17, COD: Ghosts 2 with his mates that also already own a PS4 and if your looking to buy one of the 3 consoles why would you get a NX when you would gather it will be more expensive and either of the other has a big library of games & your mates have already got. Only benefit if it's on par 3rd party wouldn't need to do much to bring a game over that the NX could have Cube sales and still be worth doing.

If they go for a gimmick then it might be a huge success like the motion controls with the Wii or it could be gamepad, virtual boy, power glove and bomb which means no 3rd party again.

Of course that's if it's a console which reggie & shigsy have said about the NX but with all these patents going about controllers which a bit handheldy it could still be a hybrid or some sort of unified platform like iPhones, iPads and Apple TV's.

Maybe move to random gaming thoughts Balla.

Balladeer wrote:

Also, does anyone else feel that this discussion could do better being moved elsewhere?  It's not really about the PS4 Jay bought any more.  Perhaps split from Jay's post onwards into a different thread?  It's a very good discussion, mind, just arguably in the wrong place.

Yesterday I bought a whole heap of trouble for the forum.

Yeah, move it - it's an interesting discussion and I'm enjoying reading it, but definitely the wrong thread for it.

It's also crept into the October games release thread a wee bit, hasn't it?

It's all in here now.

I bought a PS4 with the release of LBP3 at the end of last year, and I bought a WiiU this year when I found a cheap refurb from Argos' ebay account. My conclusion is that both consoles are worth having.

I live in a houseshare with 6 other people, and so the WiiU lives in the living room where it is used almost daily for Mario Kart 8 (and recently a little Nintendo Land too). I have also played a lot of Splatoon, ZombiU and Devil's Third myself, which are all great. I have Yoshi's Woolly World, although haven't played much as I couldn't get into it that much, and I need to play more of Hyrule Warriors, which is a brilliant game. So the WiiU has justified itself easily to me!

On the PS4 front I have physical copies of LBP3, Bladestorm: Nightmare, Sleeping Dogs: Definitive Edition, Godzilla, The Witcher 3, MGSGZ, MGSV and Mad Max, along with a load of digital games from PS+ (including most notably Rocket League). Worth it alone for MGSV to be honest!

This year also saw me buy a 3DS (a New 3DS to be precise), but for that I only own Majora's Mask, MH4U and ALBW on cartridge, and Link's Awakening downloaded. Majora's Mask is unfinished, ALBW I haven't even started, and I'm 160 hours into MH4U which I play on my commute almost every day. Considering I bought it as a MH4U machine, it's doing it's job perfectly.

But yes, recently WiiU and PS4 have shared in the games that I want to play. Devil's Third came out on WiiU shortly before MGSV and Mad Max on PS4, Super Mario Maker and Tearaway Unfolded were released at the same time (and I intend to pick both up), and coming up soon are Uncharted Collection on PS4 and Rodea: The Sky Soldier on WiiU (and Wii I guess because I got that special edition preordered ). I'd be missing out without either.

Totally agree with gjones about the handheld sentiment. I think we'll find out in years to come that Kirby and the Rainbow Paintbrush was meant to be on 3DS, and Episodes 1, 2 and 3 of Captain Toad were meant to be the flagship release for the Wii U eShop. It doesn't take away from their obvious quality that they're on Wii U, but it felt like Nintendo were releasing stuff of this calibre every week back in the DS' heyday.

I got five-and-a-half very enjoyable years out of my Wii, before eventually picking up a 360 - a new SSX, a 'gritty' new Ridge Racer, Street Fighter Vs. Tekken and the best Sonic game in almost twenty years more than justified that purchase to me at the time. But with a PS4, I don't really have much of a reason to pick on up; apart from FIFA 16, PES 2016 and maybe Tearaway Unfolded, there's nothing I'm after. I'd stick with the Wii U as my standalone, main console if Nintendo gave me enough of a reason to do so. It's starting to feel like I've got no option but to move on to something else, and that I've exhausted what Wii U has put forward. Wii U hasn't given me anywhere near what the N64, GameCube or Wii has.

Over the last three years, I've come to find that owning a Wii U isn't much of an experience. Things didn't really get better after Nintendo Land, ZombiU and NSMBU on launch day, and often seemed to get much worse. I don't think there's any other Nintendo console in history on which I've voluntarily buy the likes of Angry Birds Star Wars, Marvel Avengers and Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (twice!), just so I can have something different to play.

Splatoon is pretty damn unique and different, though I can understand why it doesn't appeal to some on here with it's stronger focus on online multiplayer & I also think the e shop output on wii U has been leagues ahead of WiiWare.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Totally agree with gjones about the handheld sentiment. I think we'll find out in years to come that Kirby and the Rainbow Paintbrush was meant to be on 3DS, and Episodes 1, 2 and 3 of Captain Toad were meant to be the flagship release for the Wii U eShop. It doesn't take away from their obvious quality that they're on Wii U, but it felt like Nintendo were releasing stuff of this calibre every week back in the DS' heyday.

I got five-and-a-half very enjoyable years out of my Wii, before eventually picking up a 360 - a new SSX, a 'gritty' new Ridge Racer, Street Fighter Vs. Tekken and the best Sonic game in almost twenty years more than justified that purchase to me at the time. But with a PS4, I don't really have much of a reason to pick on up; apart from FIFA 16, PES 2016 and maybe Tearaway Unfolded, there's nothing I'm after. I'd stick with the Wii U as my standalone, main console if Nintendo gave me enough of a reason to do so. It's starting to feel like I've got no option but to move on to something else, and that I've exhausted what Wii U has put forward. Wii U hasn't given me anywhere near what the N64, GameCube or Wii has.

Over the last three years, I've come to find that owning a Wii U isn't much of an experience. Things didn't really get better after Nintendo Land, ZombiU and NSMBU on launch day, and often seemed to get much worse. I don't think there's any other Nintendo console in history on which I've voluntarily buy the likes of Angry Birds Star Wars, Marvel Avengers and Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (twice!), just so I can have something different to play.

Loads on PS4 you would of missed and cheap now as well like Killzone it's a okay shooter that can be picked up for about a fiver.

Although I am not dissatisfied with my Wii U as such, the massive reduction in my gaming time has meant that instead of finishing games week after week, a backlog has piled up. I'm not short of games, but the most pleasure I get from the Wii U these days is eShop games. Some of them are sublime - yes, not as good as lime - but they can't make up for the patchy/slight experiences of the retail titles on offer.

If history judges the Wii U as anything other than Nintendo's worst home console, then that means there is something worse around the corner.

Virtual Boy?

One thing that I do think the Wii U lacks, after pondering it, is epic single-player experiences, along the lines of the Zeldas, XC, TLS, the SMGs, and even SPM on the Wii.  We've had Bayo 2 and maybe Pikmin 3.  Even SM3DW felt like a handheld game blown up.  Hopefully we've got three coming up, but that's still not a good total haul.

Drunkalilly wrote:

Actually, if I only had a wii u I'd have happily played splatoon 24/7 so I take it all back.

Same with me and Smash. And I can't even play online...

The Virtual Boy was technically a handheld not a home console.

Balladeer wrote:

Virtual Boy?

One thing that I do think the Wii U lacks, after pondering it, is epic single-player experiences, along the lines of the Zeldas, XC, TLS, the SMGs, and even SPM on the Wii.  We've had Bayo 2 and maybe Pikmin 3.  Even SM3DW felt like a handheld game blown up.  Hopefully we've got three coming up, but that's still not a good total haul.

Drunkalilly wrote:

Actually, if I only had a wii u I'd have happily played splatoon 24/7 so I take it all back.

Same with me and Smash.  And I can't even play online...

The Wii U is exclusively a single-player experience for me. I've never played it in local multiplayer, and I haven't had access to online since last August. That in itself puts the Wii U at a disadvantage, as so many of my fondest Wii memories were of playing while absolutely pished with my mates, and of the world-famous Mario Kart Sundays with Jaster, fronkhead, Dusty and the others.

I've only got a couple of hours into Wind Waker and Bayonetta 2, so I've got those to look forward to as well, in a sense. If I think of epic single-player games on Wii U, however, it's all about Lego City Undercover. Brilliant game.

That's still one for the backlog. Also, I think there are enough reasonably sized good single-player games, especially if you like platformers, not to mention all the eShop stuff - but not many with the same production values, scope, and feeling of participating in something big that the games I mentioned have. In fact, a lot feel "handheldy", as discussed above.

DKCTF straddles the boundary - it might qualify on epic soundtrack alone. To prove my point, Seashore War.

Balladeer wrote:

Virtual Boy?

During my research to respond to this, I looked up the Virtual Boy on that bastion of truthiness, Wikipedia. It looks like a portable console that just happens to need resting on a surface. To that end, I mentally put it in a different category to a home console. I am happy to accept that the lines may be more blurred for other people.

VB did get some good games as well, The Big N's worst system honestly is the Pokemon Mini but due to headaches and awkwardness the VB is worse.

ZeroJones wrote:

Balladeer wrote:

Virtual Boy?

During my research to respond to this, I looked up the Virtual Boy on that bastion of truthiness, Wikipedia. It looks like a portable console that just happens to need resting on a surface. To that end, I mentally put it in a different category to a home console. I am happy to accept that the lines may be more blurred for other people.

Does that make the VB a hybrid then?

TCK wrote:

......and of the world-famous Mario Kart Sundays with Jaster, fronkhead, Dusty and the others.

Those were great times but I feel if the online situation was different for yourself and others then what wii U has on offer would blow those times out the water easily with things like MK8, Smash bros, Splatoon & Runbow.

Mario Kart 8 is far, far better than Mario Kart Wii ever was

For those who missed this in the Counting Classics on Consoles thread, I've actually come up with twenty games I think might be considered classics on Wii U, including updated ports and multiplats and stuff.  That's not bad, considering that the other Nintendo consoles we looked at varied between 12 and 27, and there are three more could-be-classics on the horizon.  Copy-pasted in below.

Wii U classics?: