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Crumpy Andy
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PostSubject: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyTue 31 May 2016 - 16:10

As this seems to be a hot topic I thought I'd just make a thread about it.

Are you someone who plays through games multiple times? What makes you play through a game again?

I love to replay games, though I do prefer to leave it a year in general. A big motivator for me doing a second run is earning trophies, I'm often up for running through on a harder difficulty that often offers a whole new challenge for me. There's the odd game I'll just replay without the external motivator, but it has to be something special that I can carve a new story out of each time (Fire Emblem is a big condender in this category).
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyTue 31 May 2016 - 18:25

I will replay some games. Examples are the first three Mario & Luigi games, TTYD, and Zeldas. (And Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire, but that's when I was younger.)

My replaying criteria are quite strict, however. Games have to be, not only good, but largely devoid of poor bits. If there's a bit in a game that makes me groan to think about it, I probably won't re-start the game in the first place. (Notable exception: LoZWW's stealth nonsense.) In fact, an innocuous game that I enjoyed is more likely to be replayed than a great one which is great because it made me tense, or a great one with duff segments. I'm more likely to replay Kirby 3D than Metroid Prime.

In addition, I have to have left the game a decent amount of time. Which means no New Game +, no going back to trophy-hunt. Give me a couple of years, so that I can rediscover bits.


A NG+ mode is more likely to make me irritated than anything else, if anything can be gained by completing it rather than an additional challenge. It locks off content behind a wall of repetition. Even if the gameplay's marginally different, or a lot harder, or (in JRPGs) a lot easier, they're still the same experiences with minimal change in the things seen and worlds explored, a way of artificially extending 100% playtime.

Similar when you need to play through what is largely the same game several times to get/see everything, and that includes choice systems. I've seen 2/3 or more of this nonsense before, I'm not ploughing through the same game again for a different cut-scene. And yet the game feels hideously incomplete. Stuff it up yer backside.


I've tried to go back and NG+ games: the most recent example was the wonderful Xenoblade Chronicles. I got past the first battle before nope-ing out.
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The Cappuccino Kid
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyTue 31 May 2016 - 18:51

Everything's so serious and complex these days, and that doesn't suit my gaming tastes. There's so little out there like the quick arcadey timefillers that I loved on Mega Drive, PSone and N64 - even in the indie stuff that's meant to be reminiscent of stuff from back then has a lot of delusions of grandeur. They're just games, light entertainment, a laugh! I simply cannot be arsed with anything that's too complicated, and I feel that a lot of today's stuff is exactly that. No such problem with the vast majority of my older games, hence I favour those, and am happy to play through a lot of my favourites again and again.

I play through stuff like WWF No Mercy and NBA Street Vol. 2 again instead of starting up WWE 2K16 and NBA 2K16 because they're just so much more fun, it's that simple.
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyTue 31 May 2016 - 19:34

Yes and No, I will continue to play Sonic 2 etc for ever but will I replay Uncharted 4 NO is the simple answer in till maybe Uncharted 5 is a thing and I go back to it.

Some games like Dragon Age Origins (the god one) I started again with a with a new female character and I was making the opposite choices, so I would get all the achievements and it wasn't enjoyable, that I gave up.

It felt I was checking boxes off and playing it for the sake of playing it, where playing it that one time making my choices to have my story was what I wanted.

I'm not saying I don't like a good trophy but replaying for them isn't really my thing along with get a different story, I like the one I picked.
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gjones
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyTue 31 May 2016 - 22:46

Hell yes. It's one of my favourite things about games, especially if you can carry your save file over. A great example of this is Resident Evil 4, which I have played through at least ten times.

The NBA Street example is right on the money, as building a team is extremely rewarding. It's why I was disappointed that Homecourt didn't allow it. It's also why I'll happily sink twenty seasons in to a PES Master League, because once you win all the trophies, you set new ridiculous goals for yourself. Get one player to score 100 goals, or try and win the league with a goalkeeper up front. I enjoy messing around with a game once it has been finished.
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyTue 31 May 2016 - 22:48

I'm not usually one for replaying games at all no matter how great they are so once I'm done I typically won't touch it again in case I somehow ruin the initial experience I had with it, the one exception to that is the Souls series where just today I started a second character so I can not only try a different class but go for a different ending.

Though even then a month has almost past since I beat my first play through.
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyTue 31 May 2016 - 23:12

There's an interesting variety of answers there.

In terms of just replaying the game: I used to replay games that I liked - as Cappa says, SNES-era games have playtimes that suit this. But I don't have time now! I'm still working through Fallout 4; I probably will create characters just to run through the conflicting or turbulent factions, but there's no way I'll have time to play through the main story a second time. I haven't even done that with Oblivion, and that's probably my favourite game that doesn't contain the word Zelda. I've had to use the HD re-releases as an excuse to play Twilight Princess and Wind Waker again.

In terms of NewGame+, I'm increasing suspicious of games that require me to play 20 hours, and make one change 7 hours in, to get a "good ending*"; this is why I won't play Undertale - like Balla describes in the topic that encouraged this one. Even Hero modes in Zeldas are pushed to the back of the queue. The exception is with things like the Stanley Parable, where it's deliberately designed to be different in seconds.


*no don't missus
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 0:00

I am not someone who plays through games multiple times. At all. If I'm going to do it again, there had better be a damn good reason. The last couple of times I replayed something from start to finish was, I think, Super Princess Peach and Super Paper Mario. The former I wanted to do over so I could add that last rascally enemy to the bestiary (you know the one, SPP players) and the latter I wanted to play again after beating The Thousand-Year Door, to see if my opinion on it changed.

Spoiler: it got worse. No
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 4:39

All games should come with Tales Of New Game +, with the ability to buy "cheats" for the next playthrough that makes it easier, faster, and more convenient the next time.

To link that to the topics actual point, I find games with robust NG+ modes more replayable than those without. For example, Tales Of NG+ modes, where you can choose a variety of perks including up to 10x exp points and double money, to take any pain out of grinding and making random encounters almost entirely unnecessary to do.

Should be noted I despise NG+'s like Xenoblades, where you're forced to take your level over and nothing else, so you just godstomp the entire game.

That all said, ultimately it comes down to if the game has a cast and world I want to be immersed in again. If the game does, and is either painless and convenient the first time or provides ways to prevent it dragging a second time, then I'll replay it happily within anywhere from immediately to in a year.


This all reminds me I need to replay Persona 3 Portable again, been a few years since I played the best jrpg ever!
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Treesmurf
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 8:48

Trophies are definitely a big factor for me in replaying games these days but living in a world of online multiplayer it's become less frequent as there's a whole other side of the game that's different every time to be explored.

I struggle to replay through RPGs as I don't feel they have much to offer after the final boss, the afformentioned Mario and Luigi games I don't feel I could return to but enough time has passed for the likes of TTYD for me to want to give that another go so maybe it differs after all. I'll most likely replay adventure games, Zelda games always warrant a second playthrough, even more so if there's a master quest.
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OrangeRakoon
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 10:15

I think it makes most sense in this context to split games up into 4 categories (all the examples given are games I have played multiple times):

1) Inherently replayable games e.g. Tetris, Civilization V, Duck Hunt, Mario Kart 8, TimeSplitters 2, Star Wars Battlefront II
These games either don't really have a pre-constructed story/singleplayer, or aren't built around completing that single player. These are most obviously in the 'yes' category for do I replay them, although its arguably not replaying and more just continuing to play.

2) Games with multiple paths and/or player freedom e.g. Elder Scrolls, Fallout, The Walking Dead
These games offer radically different experiences on multiple playthroughs with brand new content and branching storylines/paths. They easily lend themselves to 'replaying' although again arguably you're not replaying the game at all, as it is all new content. I have played many different characters across Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Fallout NV, for example.

3) Games with multiple play-styles e.g. Metal Gear Solid series, Dishonored, Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Essentially you play through the same story and scenarios in these games, but the multiple ways in which you can approach them makes them very different experiences still each time. I played through Dishonored three times in a row - first was a no kills, no alerts, complete stealth run, second was a murder-happy evil run, and third was a powerless run. The story might have been the same but I never felt like I was retreading gameplay throughout as the approach to every level differed so much. MGS is a great example - I have played through MGS3 half a dozen times doing both full stealth or being murder-happy, and MGSV offers a vast number of ways of approaching every situation.

4) Games with no variation e.g. Jak and Daxter, Link's Awakening, Banjo-Kazooie, Uncharted 2, The Last of Us
Finally you get games that don't offer any split routes or differing gameplay styles, instead being largely the same experience every time. I can very much enjoy replaying games even if they are unchanged from my previous playthrough, but it does depend on the game. Some games lend themselves well to replayability and I enjoy getting to know a game's design so well that I can become very good at it, and often you /do/ discover small things you didn't notice before. Other games I feel more happy leaving as a singular experience, like Journey or Everybody's Gone to the Rapture.

Obviously there are lots of games I don't want to replay simply because I didn't enjoy them enough, but that's a different argument!

EDIT: I also realise I haven't said anything about multiple difficulty levels, but that is also something that can be a draw for replaying a game. As soon as I finished The Last of Us I restarted it on a higher difficulty and completed it again, for example.
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Balladeer
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 10:45

Good idea O_R.

I do quite a lot of playing category 1-type games (the Smashes especially), but I wouldn't describe that as "replaying". Category 3 I'll play once, category 4 I might replay after a time, category 2 games are bad and they should feel bad. I'd disagree that it's "all new content" (it may be in some cases, but these are exceptions rather than rules): more likely at least 2/3s of the game is identical in each playthrough, and it's just not worth it for the third (or less) new content that is squirrelled away.

Multiple difficulty levels is a brilliant idea for first playthroughs that does not drive replay value for me at all. Doing exactly the same thing again, only with more likelihood of making me hurl a controller across the room, manages a combination of dull and stressful that I wouldn't've thought was possible outside office deadlines.

Jimbob wrote:
But I don't have time now!

While not my main reason for not replaying games (that would be the boredom), this is a significant factor for me as well. It's the main reason why LoZTPHD languishes in its special edition box.

I don't have much time to play many games at all these days, and don't know how more open-minded multi-console gamers (who don't work in the industry) manage it. So it's usually the case that I'll have new material to play, and that will almost always take precedence over replaying. LoZTPHD has taken antecedence under Bravely Second, SF0, and Yo-Kai Watch thus far.

I agree with most of the other stuff that Jimbob said too, but this was the bit I wanted to comment on.
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OrangeRakoon
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 11:41

Balladeer wrote:
Multiple difficulty levels is a brilliant idea for first playthroughs that does not drive replay value for me at all.  Doing exactly the same thing again, only with more likelihood of making me hurl a controller across the room, manages a combination of dull and stressful that I wouldn't've thought was possible outside office deadlines.

It comes down to where you are finding the enjoyment I think. When I played through The Last of Us for the first time I did so on normal - everything in the game was new to me, including the gameplay, the level design and the story. Playing on normal felt most like "the way the game should be played", with the balance set up for you to experience the game without the challenge disrupting the overall experience. Playing on a higher difficulty would mean more restarting of checkpoints and a slowing of the games pacing, which would have disrupted the narrative flow. My enjoyment came from the overall experience.

Second time through, on a higher difficulty, I was already familiar with the gameplay mechanics, the level design and the story. Concentrating on winning encounters of increased difficulty did not detract from the narrative because that was not what I was playing the game again for. The increased difficulty (and the removal of a major mechanic that results in the game being much more difficult) offered a new challenge and made the gameplay still fresh, and I really enjoyed that. As I knew the levels and encounters the game was now scaled to match, like with less supplies being available for crafting. I was also able to discover several things (like optional conversations) that I had missed in my first playthrough.

My enjoyment came from two different places for the two playthroughs, despite much of the experience being shared.

Balladeer wrote:
category 2 games are bad and they should feel bad.

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Crumpy Andy
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 12:25

I think if the main thing that I enjoy with difficulty increases is that it tests your skill, it's why I don't understand having difficulty levels in JRPGs as it just forces more grinding, I'm currently playing Witcher 3 on a higher difficulty and whilst most encounters on normal weren't particularly tough to muddle through, it's now rewarding my preparedness for each encounter much more.
Last of Us is impressive because it almost turns the game from a shooter into a stealth game and I grew to love the game a lot more because of this, it all felt so much tighter, exciting and rewarding.
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 13:22

Crumpy Andy wrote:
it's why I don't understand having difficulty levels in JRPGs as it just forces more grinding,

Only in the bad ones or poorly implemented ones. It's a story focussed genre, some people just want the story with some extremely light gameplay, others want to actually be forced to try a bit. Most of the time the ones with difficulty sliders are so easy on easy and normal mode the player is never pushed to properly use the battle system
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OrangeRakoon
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 14:21

I love the way TWEWY handles adjustable difficulty - letting you drop your level in-game in order to raise the drop-rate of rare items.
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Balladeer
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 14:39

Agreed with that. TWEWY and KIU are games that nailed their difficulty options.
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Muss
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 18:47

A lot of people play story driven games, like your Walking Dead's, or games that feature a lot of narrative choice, like Skyrim, multiple times to see all the endings and what not. Personally that's not really my thing. I tend towards a single playthrough and accept whatever happens as Muss cannon. If I do go back to games with choices - like I have done with Banner Saga and Fallout 3, it's generally quite a while after my most first playthrough, or with a friend. More often I tend to just look up the alternate endings on a wiki because I'll have had my fill of the respective game's gameplay. In fact, that's exactly what I did after I beat Dishonored.

As for your Dark Souls style NG+ where things get tougher, or new enemies are added. I generally don't bother myself with them. That's not because I don't want to play through them again on a more challenging setting, but rather that I've moved on to the next game or film or whatever.

Trophies aren't something that motivate me. I mean, when they highlight something I may have missed like a covenant in Souls 3, then I'll go after them because that's something new. When they're just nebulous nonsense like collect every spell in the game, or beat every repetitive side mission, then I don't care.

I'm always happy for an NG+ to be in a game though, because I know there are people who get more enjoyment out of certain games because of it.
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 18:55

Muss wrote:
I'm always happy for an NG+ to be in a game though, because I know there are people who get more enjoyment out of certain games because of it.

Agreed with the rest of your post, Muss, and agreed with this - up to a point. It's when content is sealed off behind that NG+ that it annoys me, and feels like the game's charging money for old nope.
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Muss
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyWed 1 Jun 2016 - 19:19

It depends how it's done. If there's a significant chunk of game sealed behind NG+ then that's smelly ball bags. "You've played 50 hours so now you get the real version LOL" Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyThu 2 Jun 2016 - 12:51

Balladeer wrote:
Muss wrote:
I'm always happy for an NG+ to be in a game though, because I know there are people who get more enjoyment out of certain games because of it.

Agreed with the rest of your post, Muss, and agreed with this - up to a point.  It's when content is sealed off behind that NG+ that it annoys me, and feels like the game's charging money for old nope.

Some games actually do that? That's really dumb.
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyThu 2 Jun 2016 - 13:07

DKTCF is the most recent offender that springs to my mind. It was only concept art, but that was enough to irk me. I think XC had some side-quests that could only be completed in NG+ as well.
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyThu 2 Jun 2016 - 21:46

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, trophies/achievements are big incentives to go back and replay a game. If I enjoyed a game enough to still want more of it, typically if it's got trophies I'll jump back in. The big test is how long I stick with a game after I jump back in - sometimes I get my fill of a game part way through a playthrough and others I'll regret hitting that "new game" button.

Other games I'll replay just because I bloody love them, but I'll need a break between playthroughs - a year or so usually suffices. Jak & Daxter, TWEWY and Mother 3 often call to me to return to them after some time away from them. I've actually played Jak & Daxter enough to beat it 100% in about 5 hours or so.

Some games I simply cannot be arsed putting the effort in to replay them - long playtimes, frustrating difficulty spikes or generally naff sections keep me from revisiting a game.
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptyFri 3 Jun 2016 - 9:25

JayMoyles wrote:
I've actually played Jak & Daxter enough to beat it 100% in about 5 hours or so.

Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up!
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PostSubject: Re: New Game +?   New Game +? EmptySun 5 Jun 2016 - 18:01

I've just finished Oxenfree and the PS4 version was the enhanced edition form the get go, I think the PC & Xbox One versions may have had a update now.

Well this is on the official blog post on PSN from Night School Studios:

But the most thrilling addition is the creation of a surreal New Game+ mode that will continue Alex’s story with a new purpose.

I’m gonna try to do this without getting all spoilery. When you ________ the game the first time and come back to the game anew, Alex will have different, déjà vu tinged dialogue choices. Suddenly you realize that Alex is ________, and now you must ________ if you want to see tomorrow.

Okay, this is proving more difficult than I thought! Just know that with this new content, Alex’s story will continue beyond the traditional “ending” into different locations, conclusions, and a completely tweaked understanding of the events on the island.


And this is from a review of the game on PS4 and maybe some will go back and add to there PC or Xbox One review:

See the truly brilliant thing about Oxenfree is that its mystery is merely just starting to unravel after your initial playthrough. There’s plenty of incentive to go back and play the game again (which doesn’t feel like a chore due to its relatively short length), and the game even changes on repeated playthroughs. There’s new endings, additional dialogue choices, and new imagery that makes this an even better experience when replayed.

The game is short maybe took me 4hrs and now I know where I'm going etc, and actually also looks a easy platinum and seems it's worth going back, but I'm just when or if I should.
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