Last Retro Game You Finished And Your Thoughts

I have very fond memories of Jeremy McGrath's Supercross 2000 on the Dreamcast and talking about it is far more interesting than the rest of this shite

Can you do all my posts from now on please? That saved me a lot of work

Crumpy Andy wrote:

Shite, 0/10

Quote :

Crumpy Andy wrote:

Shite, 0/10

Crumpy Andy wrote:

Shite, 0/10

Spot on with MH World

Haha I knew that one was coming.

Andy's grown much more positive in his recent posts I see.

(Rich coming from me, I know I know.)

N64 Magazine said: “Average Twisted Metal clone” 74% in Issue 28, 3/5 in Issue 59.
64 Magazine said: “Aggressive car-based battle game set in the Seventies”. 90% in Issue 25.

I completed Vigilante 8, the closest thing to Twisted Metal on the N64. First, here’s a wee story. When the N64 was visibly winding down and game shops were increasingly clearing space ahead of the next generation, you’d be able to get all sorts of N64 games at heavy discounts. I got loads of stuff from my local Electronics Boutique for a tenner - not costing much more than a Blockbuster two-night rental usually convinced my Mum to get me these reduced games fairly regularly. Vigilante 8 was an example of that; it didn’t interest me at fifty quid, but for 80% off, sure, it was worth a pop. I bought a copy, took it home, all good. But I quickly saw that they’d actually sold me Vigilante 8: 2nd Offense, the sequel that hadn’t been officially released yet. Electronics Boutique accidentally sold me a wrong, brand new, not-yet-out game for only a fraction of it’s RRP - what a result! Except it wasn’t, because 2nd Offense turned out to be rubbish. I never actually played the first one until now, because I didn’t think I had any reason to. I think I only bought it to pad out the collection, it’s got one of G-Force’s £2.99 stickers on the cart.

Set amidst an oil crisis in an alternate 1975, Vigilante 8 is all about causing mayhem across an American wasteland and killing/outlasting your competition. Matches take place in a deathmatch-style arena, with mission objectives mostly revolving around protecting or destroying a specific target. There’s more than ten characters to choose from, with an assortment of cars, trucks and buses. There’s motors with varying speed, armour and handling, weapons to shoot at other cars, lots of power-ups and bonuses - it’s just your typical vehicular combat stuff to be honest, with your standard Arcade and Multiplayer modes. Yet a lot more value is added to Vigilante 8’s premise with it’s Quest Mode, which it looks like you can do in co-op. That’s good stuff, as I quite enjoyed playing a few of them by myself. It’s worth repeated playthroughs with different characters, as the levels are chained together to reveal more about them and their own stories. The characters - such as an FBI agent, a playboy, a hippie and a crook - are quite interesting, and they add a lot of personality to Vigilante 8. So do the game’s loose, bouncy physics, ‘70’s disco soundtrack and sharp, crisp graphics. It’s quite well made and entertainingly presented.

On the downside, the weapons are really, really underpowered. Even “super” missiles only do a little bit of damage. I don’t think there’s enough weapons scattered throughout each (massive) level either, but conversely there’s probably too many repair pick-ups, and that just unnecessarily prolongs each battle. Also, the combat and it’s targeting system isn’t accurate enough. I often watched my projectiles career past my opponents when I was clearly targeting them and definitely hitting them. As is often the case in these types of games, it was usually best to just go right up to your competitor and to basically fistfight with them, only with guns that are as weak as piss.

All the same, I liked Vigilante 8. It was better than I was expecting it to be, and it’s miles in front of its own sequel (and Carmageddon 64, natch). It’s clearly meant to be a multiplayer game, and I think it would be a pretty good one. Playing by myself, I was entertained right the way through. Colour me pleasantly surprised, 7/10.

~

Do you have any Vigilante 8 memories on N64, PS1 or Dreamcast? I think it also came back on 360, is that right?

Loved Vigilante 8 at the time - it was a multiplayer favourite, but never one that muscled in on Goldeneye or Mario Kart's territory. You'd have a couple of matches, and move on. It looks like you nailed it with the overlong battles and large (and fairly empty from what I recall) levels. The 70s aesthetic was a fun element and having never played Twisted Metal at the time, I have more affection for Vigilante 8's chirpier world than Twisted Metal's depressing vision of car-combat.

I lump it in with WCW/NWO Revenge and Virtual Pool 64 as games my friends and I put HOURS into, yet were very much left as fond memories. You're right though, Vigilante 8 did show up on XBLA - pretty sure it's still there.

Why didn't you like the sequel, Cappa? I haven't tried it, but it didn't review well, and my friends didn't join me in getting Dreamcasts so the multiplayer bouts never continued. I was trying to convince them of Power Stone's merits instead.

I honestly just now am reading about Vigilante 8 for the first time.

Vehicuar combat stuff has always been a weird one for me; I like in theory but it never ends up being much fun to play.

gjones wrote:

Loved Vigilante 8 at the time - it was a multiplayer favourite, but never one that muscled in on Goldeneye or Mario Kart's territory. You'd have a couple of matches, and move on. It looks like you nailed it with the overlong battles and large (and fairly empty from what I recall) levels. The 70s aesthetic was a fun element and having never played Twisted Metal at the time, I have more affection for Vigilante 8's chirpier world than Twisted Metal's depressing vision of car-combat.

I lump it in with WCW/NWO Revenge and Virtual Pool 64 as games my friends and I put HOURS into, yet were very much left as fond memories. You're right though, Vigilante 8 did show up on XBLA - pretty sure it's still there.

Why didn't you like the sequel, Cappa? I haven't tried it, but it didn't review well, and my friends didn't join me in getting Dreamcasts so the multiplayer bouts never continued. I was trying to convince them of Power Stone's merits instead.

None of my mates had Vigilante 8 so it was never a multiplayer favourite - I know I skipped it because I thought 74% was a fairly average mark, maybe my pals did too. We played loads of Revenge, but never Virtual Pool. I was thinking of reviewing the latter, but it's better left as a fond memory right enough...!

I thought the sequel was rubbish at the time - big empty maps, rubbish weapons, poor visuals and a boring single player doomed it for me. I could do with giving it another go though, I bought it for cheap again just a couple of years ago.

Buskalilly wrote:

I honestly just now am reading about Vigilante 8 for the first time.

Vehicuar combat stuff has always been a weird one for me; I like in theory but it never ends up being much fun to play.

That's quite strange, as Vigilante 8 was a fairly popular game in the late 90s, I think it did really well at retail and I remember it being advertised heavily. I think you'd maybe find it fun to play, because of "the game’s loose, bouncy physics and ‘70’s disco soundtrack" especially.

A mate of mine had both the first and second Vigilante 8s. Somehow, during this time, I'd never even heard of Twisted Metal, so I thought this was a unique thing. We did play some sort of multiplayer mode, and it was alright, but it just felt like things went on a bit too long. He was more familiar with the game, so, after a certain amount of time, he won.

I almost feel like I'm having my Mandela Effect moment right now. Was Vigilante 8 a well know game?

Yeah, I would say it was

I thought Vigilante 8 was quite well-known, but only in the late '90s - it's a series that mostly stayed quiet since.

~





N64 Magazine said: “Stashed full of innovative features, this is sadly ruined by some terrible AI. Shame, that”. 50% in Issue 17, 0/5 in Issue 59.
Arcade said: “A good compliment of moves, but no challenge in one player”. ⅖ in Issue 7.


The Nintendo 64’s library is messed up with 2D and 3D fighters that simply don’t correspond with the best on PlayStation, on Saturn/Dreamcast or at the arcades. Having played all the ones that came out in the UK at some point, I’d only regard Super Smash Bros., Rakugakids and maybe Fighter’s Destiny to be truly satisfactory in their own right, never mind compared to the finest elsewhere. That leaves lots of utter toilet, and which is the worst of them all can be put up for debate. Yet I think that even the notoriously awful likes of War Gods, G.A.S.P.! and Tom & Jerry in Fists of Fury don’t sink to the depths of Dual Heroes, an utterly incomprehensible monstrosity that breaks new ground for terrible N64 fighters.


Describing Dual Heroes is hard to do, because it’s so nondescript in many ways and yet feels so spectacularly off in plenty of others. I’d say it tries to be Virtua Fighter with a Power Rangers theme, but that inadequately tells you how badly it falters in replicating the former’s methodical play style and the latter’s over-the-top personality. If you’re to break it down into any criteria in which you can measure a game’s quality, Dual Heroes can only be regarded as a total and unmitigated disaster. Visually, Dual Heroes is a sickly overload of primary colours that just isn’t pleasing to look at in motion. There’s massive black borders around the screen, the arenas have no detail, the backgrounds look like a wiped arse, and while the fighter’s themselves are actually animated fairly well (easily the best part of the game), they just look utter shite. They all look like the type of Power Rangers knock-off toys you used to get at the poundshop, with a name like ‘Power Squadron’. None of it’s soundtrack has any kind of hook either. I try to remember some of the tunes, but instead I get ones from different games in my head. The sound has energy I suppose, but it’s characterless, Japanesey stuff that could have been lifted from any Super Famicom game from the early ‘90s.


Visually and audibly poor as it is, it's the gameplay, controls and AI that completely knackers Dual Heroes. It tries to be clever by letting you switch between a 2D plane and 3D movement with the Z button, but it’s when the combat is as stiff, delayed and one-sided as this, this manoeuvrability is pointless. You can also tap B three times to morph into a ‘super’ version of your fighter, but that’s made redundant by the game’s lack of difficulty. However you play it, Dual Heroes doesn’t have a deep moveset to let you be creative with your attacks, and the AI isn’t smart enough to know what’s hit it. So, I quickly learned that the most effective for completing the game was the spam the A button for quick punches. When that didn’t work (about 10% of the time), the enemy would usually idiotically fall off the side of the stage first. It amazed me how many times this happened on my playthroughs, I think they did it on purpose. Dual Heroes didn’t put up a challenge and didn’t feel good to play. It’s a shoddily programmed shambles.


I’m confused by N64 Magazine’s “stashed full of innovative features” remark. I’m guessing that it’s to do with Dual Heroes’ VR Mode that trains a robot to learn your fighting style to compete on your behalf. The game makes a big deal about this on the back of it’s box, but the best I can gather is that it’s kind of like the amiibo stuff in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, just featured in an immeasurably worse game. Why there’s a whole mode dedicated to watching the game play itself is a mystery to me, especially in one that’s as undeserving of any of your time, effort and energy as this.


What’s mental about Dual Heroes is that it’s from Hudson Soft, the same folk who did Bloody Roar. Bloody Roar was great! Dual Heroes instead plays like a broken version of Battle Arena Toshinden that’s still got two years to go until it’s release. There’s very few N64 games worse than Dual Heroes. It’s a clusterfuck of a game. 2/10.

I'd completely forgotten about Vigilante8 - not so Dual Heroes, which I remember getting a panning back in the day. Not quite as badly as this!

It deserved a bodying, and I've go no idea where N64 Magazine got 50% from. Looking at an old Club 64 Directory, they gave Dual Heroes a higher score than loads of games, like Gex Deep Cover Gecko, Fighting Force and even Bomberman 64. Those aren't nearly as bad as Dual Heroes!

N64 Magazine said: “For sheer whizz-bang, puck-zipping magic, Gretzky is hard to beat”. 75% in Issue 6, 2/5 in Issue 59

Nintendo Official Magazine said: “Fun ice hockey sim. Grab if it’s cheap”. 81% in Issue 96.


It’s the one you’ve been waiting for: Wayne Gretzky’s 3D Hockey! Although I shouldn’t take the mick, because this is a great game that’s held up brilliantly. Wayne Gretzky’s 3D Hockey was a really early N64 game – so early that it’s not only the system’s first four-player game, but it’s first sports game too. I could hardly think of a better debut (expect for maybe Mario Kart 64, Goldeneye 007, NBA Hangtime, that Predatory Loans game we played in Manchester, etc). There’s a stupid number of ice hockey games on the N64, and between EA’s, Konami and Acclaim’s efforts, I think this one – developed by Williams and published by Midway – is the best of the lot.


This is like the ice hockey version of NBA Jam, with back-and-forth gameplay, a turbo meter, shorter periods of play and shots that cause the net to burst into flames. The goalkeeper is controlled by the computer, and you switch between your other players with the shoulder buttons. It’s a system that worked famously well for NBA Jam, and Williams don’t arse about with it in Wayne Gretzky’s 3D Hockey. It adds on top of that template though, so there’s two ways to play. The Arcade Mode is faster paced with three players on each team, whereas the Simulation Mode has bigger rinks and is a five-a-side kickabout (or whatever the hockey equivalent for a kickabout is). You’ve got Full Season and Short Season campaigns too, and the high-scoring games make them single player modes a lot more fun than you’d think. Everything runs smoothly and is animated well, and your shots feel like they’ve got real heft behind them. Four player multiplayer was the big attraction though, and that’s where my pals and I spent most of my time with Wayne Gretzky’s 3D Hockey back in the day. With other players, it’s brilliant fun. The only negative thing I’d have to say is that the fighting system isn’t very good…but I’d rather play these fights than the ones in Dual Heroes, so...

Wayne Gretzky’s 3D Hockey is a really fun alternative to the simulation ice hockey games that are ten-a-penny on N64. It’s absolutely worth the fiver that it’s loose cartridge is selling for on CEX. 8/10.






N64 Magazine said: “Cheap, cynical cash-in on a sporting non-event”. 60% in Issue 15, 0/5 in Issue 59.

Nintendo Official Magazine said: “‘Nother ice hockey sim. Great for four, two side a war”. 79% in Issue 96


I have to comment on the bare-arsed cheek of Olympic Hockey ’98 too. Memorably, Olympic Hockey ’98 is the only time IGN have ever given a game 0/10, simply stating in their review that “we’ll post a new review when Midway releases a new game”.

I was already reviewing Wayne Gretzky’s 3D Hockey anyway, so I had to pick up a cheap copy of Olympic Hockey ’98 and see for myself what it was like. Right enough, other than international teams instead of NHL ones, a few different graphics on the menus and no Wayne Gretzky endorsement, it’s the exact same game. Same engine, same controls, same options, same music, same commentary. 

I didn’t play it for more than twenty minutes (so I’m not reviewing it) but I’ve seen enough to know that this must surely have been one of the biggest cons in gaming history. What’s really sleekit is that they released yet another Wayne Gretzky game soon after. In the UK, Wikipedia reads that Olympic Hockey ’98 came out in April 1998, and Wayne Gretzky’s 3D Hockey ’98 followed in June. Imagine not reading the reviews first and planting £100 on the same game twice, and then weighing in the £50 you’d spent on Wayne Gretzky’s 3D Hockey the year before. Wooft!

~

Any hockey fans here? Also, have you ever played a game that you'd award 0/10?

I do like a ice hockey game played them all during the GameCube, I do have NHL 20 installed on my Xbox One but not got around to it but might with this dry spell and holding off for next gen.

I used the next five games I’m reviewing to testrun Retro-Bits Tribute 64 controller, their inexpensive homage to the near-mythological N64 Hori Mini Pad. I’d havered about buying one of those Japan-exclusive Hori Mini Pads for years, nearly convincing myself that the £100 they sell for would be a worthwhile investment if I was to park myself and play all these old N64 cartridges I’ve got ‘seriously’. I forgot about that plan when I moved out and away from my N64 over five years ago, but was naturally interested to read that Retro-Bit were bringing out an affordable version of their own in 2019. I thought maybe someone would be interested to read my thoughts.
 
Lots of people really dislike Nintendo’s official N64 Controller, and those people are bad and wrong. All the same, Hori’s Mini Pad was designed to circumnavigate many of the N64 Controller’s perceived issues, and set about changing the shape, size and button placement, as well as removing the middle prong and switching up the joysticks for one that you’d find on a GameCube controller. The shape and size is supposed to sit more comfortably in your hands, and let your index fingers rest more naturally over the shoulder buttons (where Z has been moved to too). That might be the case with the Hori Mini Pad, and that might be why it’s got such a glistening reputation. But for me, the Tribute 64 makes this placement feel a bit cramped and sweaty, and it didn’t sit very snugly in my hands as the two prongs jabbed into them. So did the Expansion Port (the bit for your Rumble Pak and Memory cards), that uncomfortably dug into my fingers on longer playthroughs. I thought the Expansion Port was a bit tight as well, I feared that my memory card was permanent stuck in it. For a controller that’s marketed on being ergonomic, I didn’t find it that nice to hold. The texture feels right, but otherwise I think it’s a flawed creation.
 
The buttons are big, thick and satisfyingly firm to press, and they’ve not fannyed about with that original pattern of the A, B and C buttons, so that’s good. The D-Pad and Analogue Stick have swapped places, and for most games that’s sensible enough. It’s not at all suitable for the games that rely on the D-Pad though, like Mischief Makers, Kirby 64, the AKI wrestling games and most of the console’s puzzlers and fighters. Having that big joystick on the left is a worthwhile tradeoff though, and I felt it was absolutely excellent for 3D platformers, racers and sports games – they types of games that make up 99.9% of the N64’s PAL library. The Joystick is easily the best part about the Tribute 64…although perhaps it’s got just a little bit too much space and reach for games where you’d need more delicate and intricate manoeuvres.
 
The Tribute 64 is built well, and the buttons can take a thrashing. It costs less new than the N64 pad does second-hand too, and those pad’s joysticks get knackered after prolonged use. I can see this pad lasting a long time, and for that reason, I think it’s well worth buying and using. It’s not better than the original controller, but despite its drawbacks it’s an overall very capable alternative. There's a version with a USB Connector for PCs too! 7/10.


~






N64 Magazine said: “Good fun in places, but obvious flaws include horrendous pop-up and stop-dead banks”. 71% in Issue 7, ⅕ in Issue 59.
64 Magazine said: “Early, now outdated Formula 1 game”. 63% in Issue 6.


I played through F1 Pole Position 64, an early, officially-licensed Nintendo 64 Formula One racer that’s based on the racers, teams and circuits from the 1995 season. As well as being in the mood for a F1 game, I actually had a bit of a soft spot for F1 Pole Position 64. It got middling write-ups back on launch, and online reviews and retrospectives haven’t been kind to it. Yet I found my past limited experiences with it to be fairly enjoyable. It’s got a truly excellent glitch where if you set your fuel to 10%, you get unlimited fuel and a massive speed and acceleration boost. So, the game’s main sixteen-track, ten-laps-per-race Grand Prix mode was a piece of piss to finish quickly.


It looks acceptable for an early Nintendo 64 game, the level of customisation is good, and the sense of speed is decent. Otherwise though, F1 Pole Position 64 predictably isn’t up to much these days. The most in-your-face issue is that the pop-up and sound effects might be the worst on the system. All the tracks build up right in front of your eyes, and the engine noises sound nothing like a high-powered Formula One car. The way it plays is a bit off too, with cars taking too little damage yet steering so weirdly: as Zapp Brannigan said, “she’s built like a steakhouse but she handles like a bistro”. The tracks don’t look good either, lacking most of the features that defined them. Monaco is a decent example of this: there’s no view of the harbour, barely any spectators, and just doesn’t have that feeling of glitz, glamour and prestige that even the Mega Drive F1 games managed to capture. Everything else that surrounds the racing -  like the menus, the music, and generally the whole presentation – isn’t very inspiring either.


I liked it in the past, but now I’m pretty indifferent to F1 Pole Position 64. While it’s not a horrible game and certainly not in the conversation to be considered amongst the console’s worst, it’s just too ordinary for me to suggest you give it a go. 4/10.

That looks like a hybrid between the GC and N64 controllers to my eyes for some reason.

71% to 1/5 is quite the drop - reads like that's what you experienced too Cappa.

The N64 pad with the GameCube stick sounds perfect, because the loose, cocaine-filled sticks of N64 pads remain a barrier for me. Even at the time, N64 sticks would quickly loosen and multiplayer sessions would see friends call "shotgun" on the newest pad. Goldeneye, much like sexual intercourse, relied on a stiff stick for optimum results. I would even say the GameCube stick is better than the Wii, Wii-U and Switch ones. And it had to be, else Super Monkey Ball would have seen more verbal abuse to virtual apes than that time I took a minecart ride after ten pints of Stella.

I think I've brought them up on here before but the brawler 64 look like they are the best new N64 controllers you can get.

I still think the original is the best, I genuinely really like that pad. But for a new controller, I think I'd still plonk for the Tribute 64. The thing about the Brawler is that it's £35 - that's nearly the cost of two Tribute 64s. There's apparently a big deadzone around the control stick too, and that just wouldn't suit games like Lylat Wars, Wace Race 64 or F-Zero X. Plus, most of the fighting games on N64 are baws.

I'm quite interested in giving it a go myself, but I could see myself using it once and then just going back to the original pad.