Paper Mario and the Thousand-Year-Awaited Remaster

Balladeer wrote:

 Oh, and the one bit I do remember being miserable - the soundtrack - has received some very welcome updates.  I'd be interested on other people's views on the revamped Glitzville music.

Reading this really surprised me. I can't imagine a game being so beloved by you specifically while having weak music!

Shows how good the other bits are.

It's not all bad I guess.  It's one of those soundtracks that stands up in-game better than it does to solo listening.  There are a couple of notable stinkers, though, and only one tune that I'd say is properly good.  Might do a music post thread about this (and further extend my series of multi-posts in there...).

I got through the second chapter and I’m making my way through the third. I didn’t enjoy Chapter 2 loads but if that’s regarded as the weakest part of the whole game then I have to think that I’m eventually in store for something very special.

I’ve not accepted any of those Troubles sidequests yet – is there any advantage or benefit in doing so? On a similar note, I’ve given some of my coins to a green rat-figure who hangs about the port who's going to look for oil – I take it I’ll get a return on my investment?

Hmm.  From what I've seen the reward often doesn't outweigh the effort, a lot of them are 'here's 30 coins or a somewhat rare item'.  The exception is, after finishing chapter 4 (another goodun), there's a trouble about a badge.  It's a slightly tedious one (you have to go back to the place where you fought Hooktail) but the reward is worthwhile.

Rat lad:

Oh, and also the other Trouble from Zess T. you get at around the same time. Also that.

This game is giving me a bit of an existential crisis. It's obviously not as perfect as I remember it being - there are some absolutely horrible unnecessary backtracks and pacing-killers. But if this isn't a 10/10, what is? (racks brains frightfully, goes to have a lie down or something)

Balladeer wrote:

I'd say that if you manage to get through the second chapter without giving up, you're probably safe to dig into this for the long haul.  Even among superfans like m'self the section with the Pikmin Punis is considered the weakest bit of the game probably - and the chapter after that, arguably the strongest.  I think you'll like it.

I thought Chapter 3 was worse than Chapter 2.  Chapter 4 was the highlight of the game for me so far though. I sense I’m about to set sail for Chapter 5.


~
 
I’m not sure if would have been popular with The Thousand Year Door’s most fervent fans, but I’d have much better appreciated a Director’s Cut version than this pretty exact GameCube remake. Don’t get me wrong: I think the battling, remastered soundtrack and updated visuals are all brilliant, I appreciate additions like the Partner Wheel and the exploration is usually interesting enough to keep me engaged. But there’s so much of the script that could have been removed, writing that I don’t think makes any positive difference to the experience. It’s not that good. This isn’t the classic dialogue that folk have convinced themselves it is.
 
That’s probably why I didn’t enjoy Chapter 3 all that much. I thought it wasn’t well balanced between battling, exploring and wading through paragraph after paragraph of text. The split was maybe 30/20/50, whereas it should be 50/40/10.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

...there’s so much of the script that could have been removed, writing that I don’t think makes any positive difference to the experience. It’s not that good. This isn’t the classic dialogue that folk have convinced themselves it is.

Mmm, interesting!  I had a think about this following my replay, and I don't think you're entirely wrong.  The writing's strong, but on its own isn't actually that good.

For me, though, it isn't on its own.  It's not just the dialogue that makes the game classic: it's the dialogue coming from these characters with these designs, in this setting.  I think there's an extra layer that it's coming from Mario characters too, adding a level of familiarity that can be subverted.  Gangsters beating each other up in a shady town?  Saying "da boss sends his regards"?  Dull, hackneyed, bad writing.  Make those gangsters Piantas?  Instant uplift.  It's the set-pieces too: "jeepers Mario, I think we're trapped" is a lot more effective when you've been locked away before a title bout and the music is going off on one.  No game has done this so well since I don't think, although I haven't played Origami King.  

That's also what I love about chapter 3.  A wrestling ring is such a weird setting for Mario, especially when you throw in missing fighters and corruption behind the scenes, and 20+ event battles in a very solid battle system.  Shame it didn't work for you - I guess I thought the setting would do more.

TTYD is one of my all-time favourites and Glitzville is one of my least favourite parts of it - I found the pacing a bit lousy. Still fun though.

As Balla says, obviously when you're playing this 20 years later, you'll notice a lot of the design choices that feel pretty archaic - the backtracking being particularly egregious. And as Cappa pointed out, it's a pretty exact remake of the game, with only a few quality of life updates. I still had a great time though. I recently played through the Tales of Symphonia "remaster" (because it got a few patches that make it playable) and found the same thing - it's very clearly of the Gamecube era, and obviously not as slick as the game I remembered. But I'm playing these games with a huge amount of nostalgia and still enjoying them a lot, and playing them to the end.

For all that I didn't especially love The Origami King, I think it had the best realisation of the Mushroom Kingdom as a large, traversable world. TTYD is full of levels that aren't really anything to do with each other - you just access them by warp pipes, 80s Mario Bros style - and they more often than not feel like rooms laid out side-by-side as you travel through them. Again though - 2004 RPG. And in terms of the gameplay I would still kill for a more fleshed-out version of its battle system for the next game in the series.

The writing, while not necessarily totally iconic, did make me laugh multiple times - one of the early ones being when Punio the tiny Puni asks you something like "so I guess you guys aren't bullies?" and one of the options is "guess again, nerd!". The script had a lot of silly moments like that which I enjoyed.

Overall, glad I got the opportunity to play through the game again, warts and all. Still love it.

I think where I come down on this is that actually it'd be quite easy for Nintendo to make a new Paper Mario that was better paced and more joined-up than this, and if they did this would be an 8/10 at best. But they haven't, so it's still head and shoulders above the next-best thing, even with its flaws.