Last Game You Finished And Your Four-ghts

I lied I managed to finish another game before year ends, this one was super long as well

Which you can see from my second play-through

I don't think you need me to tell you that this game's great, but is it exceptional?  Is it top-tier?  Is it, in fact, an absolute banger?

It's not hard to poke holes in Luigi's most recent adventure.  Some floors felt under-developed, the combat largely felt rather easy and the enemy variety limited, the final boss had some odd decisions...  The biggest criticism, however, is that it still doesn't feel like it's properly delivered on the promise of the GameCube original.  The hotel layout had so much potential, especially after the regimented structure of 2.  Imagine, being able to scale up and down between the different floors in different ways, exploring and mining them for hoover upgrades!  Luigi could go fully mansionvania!  Instead the floors are, with the exception of the first three you visit, entirely separate and gated off; the reasons for revisiting are few with most floors never returned to; and the hoover upgrades are all but limited to the first few hours of the game.  You've more or less got the structure of game 2, with 17 missions.

We need a slightly different lens here.  LM3 is neither a ghostbusting sim nor a Metroidvania, and it's certainly abandoned all pretensions the original had of horror.  It is instead a puzzle and exploration game, with the latter almost meaning a 'walking sim' and the former almost reaching 'point and click'-ness at times.  The underlying structure is decent, with some 'ohhhhh' moments in its puzzles; but it's raised to greatness (as the second game was) by its charm.  The boss ghosts are largely tremendous fun to solve/fight, Luigi continues to put Mario to shame, and any moment where the Polterpup shows up is rife for cooing over.  Meanwhile the environmental design, and the tactility of almost everything in it, is on another level.  It's little things like the squeaky ducks in B2, or the reels on 8F, that make this game what it is: the Nintendo difference, perhaps.

What it is a great game, and a valid contender for game of the year.  To be truly top-tier, it needs to balance combat, exploration, and puzzling a bit better, to finally deliver on that promise.

Hmmmmm... oh boy. That's put me in a bit of a tizzy. I sort of want to get Luigi's Mansion 3, but, despite there being nothing particularly wrong with it, I don't jump up and down when someone mentions its predecessor - I think I'd go as far to say it wasn't amazing fun to actually play - as you're hinting there Balla, it's sort of like a "charming moment delivery system". I might have to pass...

Dark Souls the second time re-evaluation o'clock
Sometimes people talk about Dark Souls like they talked about the White Stripes in 2003
+ Actually playing it and learning to get round the bad doods and battle through areas is rewarding, and, for the most part, fair
+ For the most part, the tired "git gud" retort does have some merit to it - you do feel yourself getting better at the game, and I found most of it (particularly bosses) a lot easier to cope with. Likewise with status and leveling options
+ Nearly all the "nasty surprises" are actually hinted at with environmental clues
+ The environmental shortcut system is clever. Surprised how lenient the DLC is actually
+ I got Solaire to the help out at the end bit! I did it!
+ Regional British accents are still a lot of fun

- Ornstein and Smough is a difficulty spike - and arguably Sen's Fortress before that is a bit of one also (therefore, you're not encouraged to go elsewhere to try and level up)
- Some of the cryptic stuff is ridiculous - you'd never think to do some of the things that would be required to get to find out everything about some of the characters, and should you find something by mistake, you're then paranoid that you're missing something
- Due to the limited nature of items to improve elemental effects on weapons, it doesn't really encourage trying out different variations of things on e.g. bosses. Ultimately I succeeded by improving my whacking stick and whacking ability as much as I could.
- Some of the menus are a bit of a mess (although they tidied that up for the sequels)

I'd still give it a 9/10.

I reckon this...

Jimbob wrote:

- Some of the cryptic stuff is ridiculous - you'd never think to do some of the things that would be required to get to find out everything about some of the characters, and should you find something by mistake, you're then paranoid that you're missing something

...is very much linked with this.

Jimbob wrote:

+ I got Solaire to the help out at the end bit! I did it!

I agree - some of the NPC questlines are a GameFAQs writer's dream.

Jimbob wrote:

- Due to the limited nature of items to improve elemental effects on weapons, it doesn't really encourage trying out different variations of things on e.g. bosses. Ultimately I succeeded by improving my whacking stick and whacking ability as much as I could.

Sadly, I think a lot of the elemental upgrade stuff is focused on random drops from enemies. I know I had to spend a bit of time whacking enemies for the Green Shards or whatever it was you need for Divine upgrades.

LiS2 is an odd game as when the first episode came out, and I heard mixed things then nothing till people started having Game of the Year chat with the series being brought up.

As a fan of LiS and BtS, I was always going to play anyway but was more motivated to do so, with a plan of an episode a day over my 5 days off, where in fact I played it all over 3 days.

I think that shows how good it was and this has been a great addition to Game Pass (I did buy EP5 as I didn't think it be out as quickly as it was on Game Pass) and can see especially with the upcoming Tell Me Why the episodic model working on the service, along with the handling of various subjects that game will have based on LiS2.

With all that said I still prefer the first games story, characters and soundtrack. Now, this very could be much like the Brothers situation which I know Jay really liked it but he has a brother, where even though I have a half brother I've not seen him in 21 years that sure the emotional side does have an impact but not as much as it could for someone like Jay.

I am interested in trying this at some point. The original was once one of my favourite games. It still is very, very good, although I find myself less fussed with it than I was when I first played it.

I assume this one still uses a time rewind mechanic? Perhaps a shame if so, it would have been good to see Don't Nod try something different but I guess the original did numbers so hey-ho.

No it's a different power this time

I do wonder if not having the gaps between episodes harmed the game for you. Every episode takes place a few months apart and whilst the speed of the episodes was still a little unreliable even then, it mostly matched the progression of time in the game. Every episode felt like I was checking in with an old friend, catching up on the last few months and going on a mini adventure.

I’m also kind of confused about the character/story comment. I felt there was a lot more depth to LiS2, the relationship between Daniel and Sean was incredible and seeing Daniel growing based on your choices was incredible. I get that you like Chloe, but despite having a more constant wider cast I remember almost none of the side characters from the original. I still remember most of the characters in LiS 2.

Anyway, strongly recommend LiS2 to all, I think it’s considerably better than the first and it well worth anyone’s time.

I still massively recommend it and was a great way to start the year, as I'm not saying it's a bad game or anything just that I prefer the first game like how I prefer Alien over Aliens, still both great movies.

Wow. I am stunned. This is quite possibly my new favourite game of all time. Every single detail in this point-and-click RPG has been meticulously placed. The narrative attention to detail, the world building, the characterisation, it's all out of this world good. It's as if a really good book has turned into a video game...

And yet at the same time it isn't. Making a direct comparison to a book, comic, film... none of that's fair. This has all the craftsmanship of something from Alan Moore's litany of work: it is bespoke for the medium.

There is a lot of text.... a shit ton of text, but the writing is of such a high quality that you'll want to guzzle all of it down. The games length is slightly inflated by the amount of walking around you'll have to do too, but everything in the game has a purpose of some kind (whether it's useful or not is another matter), so you'll not feel hard done by.

The pacing is just right, with plenty of crescendos along the way.

For those not in the know, the game casts you as a cop on the trail of a murderer. There's almost no combat in the game, and instead there's one of the most innovative and engaging level-up systems I have ever seen. I'm not going to go into it too much, since it is so wonderfully woven into the narrative that I don't want to spoil anything. Suffice to say, there's a traditional - put a point in this stat - system, which gives you a given value for a given stat. This is augmented by your equipment, but also your thoughts. You can use Exp to research, or forget, thoughts which further augment your stats and refine what sort of a character you are playing.

I went through the game as a sorry communist cop for the most part. But I was also an artcop and I'm going to stop right there before I never shut up.

I'm looking forward to one of you playing this at some point, and when you do I'll be firing this up again to play along with you.

It's aesthetically old and new. Not the sort of game I'd ever normally pick up, but this is the Muss 10/10. Maybe even the 11/10.

It's my game of the year and, right now, my game of the decade. There's almost nothing bad I can say about it apart from the fact that it ends, and ends a bit suddenly at that. I hear a squeal and an expansion is on the way though and I cannot wait.

Sounds really good and I think my PC could run it but I think I will wait to it comes to console (I feel it might have been teased for Game Pass, then if it's this good would I want to give them my money direct), just hope it's out at a sensible time as even though it sounds great if it comes out march no matter how good it is I'm playing Final Fantasy VII Remake.

Now I do remember Jay going on about Undertale, and I did enjoy it but I feel it was overhyped by people that I hop DE isn't another one of those.

I'll see about getting on your steam link and downloading that, then. I've heard nothing but effusive praise.

THE WITNESS
Or Charming Hamburger Adventure: The Game
Or Lex Luthor's Solve My Maze HD

Oh my goodness me. This is a puzzle game that's right up my alley. Mostly. Starting off with no contrived plot, you head off in search of puzzles. Immediately there's a door. The door's got a screen on it, with a big dot, and a line coming off the dot. You click on the dot, draw to the end of the line. Job's a good'n. Then there's several hours of running round an island, looking at screens, wondering why the maze on this screen has coloured dots on it, thinking it's impossible, staring at it, drawing the right path and sort-of getting things, completing the next puzzle across due to the logic you just learned, and feeling like an absolute bloody genius. Like the bit with the trees - there's

Oh wait I'd better spoiler this:

Or

and this:

You get into the habit of drawing on all the screens, and eventually "complete" a section, thus sending a laser light off to the mountain of Clearly Where The Last Bit Of The Game Is. You feel like a smart-arse, but then the smartypantsness squares itself:

Uh-oh, more spoilers, this is getting sci-fi review lengthy:

If you've read the spoilers, you'll get the impression that I really really like this game. And I do. It does get a bit too obscure at times (I didn't complete the thing in the last spoiler box, as it's not necessary to unlock The Last Bit), but, although it's difficult, it does as good as a job as is reasonable to gradually go through gears of difficulty - there's an actual sense of progression. If scores were vital ( ) I'd want to give this a 10/10.
BUT
Outside of the puzzles, the "story" is disappointing. Hidden in various locations are little MP3-player-like devices - hidden further still are puzzle instructions for the "video room". Your reward for this is an audio-clip of someone reading a quote from history, something I assume the author of the game decided was profound. Likewise, the videos are of various philosophical interviews that "like, make you think, man". The puzzles themselves make this game seem like the work of an intellectual champion, but this philosophical bullshit does not - you've just copied things other people have done, and it smacks of trying too hard to impress someone. I don't really know why the island is there, and I'm not sure if I missed something that was supposed to have told me, but I long stopped listening to anything I heard in these recordings. I just want to solve puzzles, mate.

If I were to give it a score... it's like a (10-2)/10 - I know maths fans will say that that's just an 8, but I sort-of want to indicate that some bits of this are 10-like.

I didn’t even feel that the MP3s were the story really, I felt happy enough believing the story was light up the mountain and get to the end. It is a bloody brilliant game though, one I doubt we’ll ever see the like of again.

That's a very valid point, Mr. Crump - it's not really story as such, and I shouldn't let it get in the way of the actual game which I agree is ace.

I don't know that last time I told an audio recording to fuck off, though!

I just finished Final Fantasy III DS which is the first of the series I've beaten. I've tried this, FFIV, FFVII and FFXIII in the past so it's nice to have actually finished one.

I'm not a big RPG guy aside from Pokemon, Persona and a handful of other series that don't seem too oldfashioned or grindy, but occasionally I push the boat out a bit and I did want to play through an FF. I chose this one because I enjoyed what I had played of it in the past and had gotten the farthest in it, and it turned out to be fairly nice time-wise as well, with my end-time in the low 30 hours.

The game turned out to be fairly easy-going for the most part, at least more than I expected, even in the long run. A decent challenge but still cosy. Did end up grinding in some parts and especially for the last dungeon, but I actually kind of got into it. Reminds me of when I'd happily level up some of my favourite pokemon in the older games to 100 just for the hell of it.

That said, am relieved to have it out the way now. I don't mind too much the that final dungeon area is the way it is, but I'm glad I only messed up right at the end of it once, beating it on my second go. Some tips I stumbled across while reading up stuff about the game definitely helped, and I had pretty much neglected formation (oops) up until that point, so putting my mage in the back row helped.

Beat The Ninja Saviours: Return of the Warriors last night. It's a side-scrolling beat 'em-up that's been plucked from 1994 obscurity and given a modern remastering, much like Wild Guns was a few years ago. It's made by the same folk too. That already speaks for it's quality: I was expecting this to be very good, and it is! This is well-polished brawler that's got a surprising amount of variety in it's characters, stages and combos. It's a smarter game than what you'd find on the Capcom Beat 'Em Up Bundle, for example. However, that game is undoubtedly better value for money. Ninja Saviours is just a bit too short and a bit too easy for me to give it my full recommendation. Still, it's very good entertainment if you're looking for something to play that'll let you switch your brain off. 8/10.

When I did the Nontendo Backlog thread I mentioned about PSN and XBL but didn't really look at stuff part from an odd few games but The Witness is a game I have both systems thanks to Plus/Gold/Whatever and one I've always thought about playing as I think it would be my sort thing, as it's digital I forget about it in the near 1000 games combined on those two consoles.

Anyone else do that, forget about a game especially if it's digital?


OR will be pleased as after all these years I've finally finished Gravity Rush on something, as I just had this urge to go back and play it on my PS4 for the first time since Feb 2016.

I really like it, but it's not brilliant more along the lines of an odd cult classic 7/10 type deal because it was on VITA and it's kinda quirky. I may even put the sequel in the console after being on my shelf for 3 years.

Of the last four, I should really give The Witness a go, and finished FFIII a while back on the DS. I still have fond memories of the latter: a simple yet effective job system, and some truly cracking tunes in places. That said, neglecting formation until right up near the end?? Man alive.

FFIV is good though, but it didn't work so well for me on DS. I finished it on GBA. I'm not sure I'd have the time these days, mind...

Yeah, FFIV was good. Also played that on DS, and I guess like FFIII back in the day I just got stuck at one point and then forget about it when I played something else. I don't remember liking the style of dialogue that much though, and I think I read somewhere that it's a quirk of that version's translation. I also heard it gets really hard. If I get around to playing the game I'd probably play the Steam version (which is the DS one with difficulty levels) or the PSP version.

Jimbob wrote:

Outside of the puzzles, the "story" is disappointing. Hidden in various locations are little MP3-player-like devices - hidden further still are puzzle instructions for the "video room". Your reward for this is an audio-clip of someone reading a quote from history, something I assume the author of the game decided was profound. Likewise, the videos are of various philosophical interviews that "like, make you think, man". The puzzles themselves make this game seem like the work of an intellectual champion, but this philosophical bullshit does not - you've just copied things other people have done, and it smacks of trying too hard to impress someone. I don't really know why the island is there, and I'm not sure if I missed something that was supposed to have told me, but I long stopped listening to anything I heard in these recordings. I just want to solve puzzles, mate.

If I were to give it a score... it's like a (10-2)/10 - I know maths fans will say that that's just an 8, but I sort-of want to indicate that some bits of this are 10-like.

I share your feelings on not really getting the point of the audio recordings, but like Andy was saying, it didn't bear on my opinion of the game. However, there was one "plot" section that I enjoyed quite a bit which I had suggested to me following beating the game. It's a secret ending of sorts.

If you care about seeing it, here's how...:

Kriken wrote:

I don't mind too much the that final dungeon area is the way it is, but I'm glad I only messed up right at the end of it once, beating it on my second go. Some tips I stumbled across while reading up stuff about the game definitely helped, and I had pretty much neglected formation (oops) up until that point, so putting my mage in the back row helped.

Oh wow - missing out on formation must have made parts of that game pretty tough! I pretty much always had Arc and Refia in the back row with Luneth and Ingus up front. That final dungeon thought... not fun! I messed up a few times in my first playthrough on DS and never actually ended up beating it until I replayed FFIII on Steam years later.

Yeah it definitely would have helped a lot, though it was just a little bit of grinding here and there that helped me power through. I suppose it might have made the game experience a bit more even, because when you reach the crystal tower you have to grind a lot anyway.

It only became a big-ish issue from the area before the crystal tower and onwards with Arc as a red mage dying all the time. That did motivate me to get a better armour set for him, but then I ended up changing him into a Ninja anyway. I got him to level 99 as a Red Mage because I was assured by someone that, though the class falls off near the end of the game, it'd be fine and job level matters a lot. But with the Ninja I had access to much better swords and the shuriken which seemed to more than offset the low job level.

Then had Refia my Geomancer switch to Sage around the same time. Heard that Devout is better but oh well, the number of charges she had for high level white magic spells was good enough.

You sexist pigs, making Refia a mage. She was my physical fighter, raw stats. be damned!

JayMoyles wrote:

If you care about seeing it, here's how...:

Yeah, I'd heard about that - I don't know if I can bring myself to go back in yet...