Last game you DIDN'T finish and your thoughts

I think I might be coming back to it sooner rather than later, because it's time for an action-adventure-with-RPG-elements double-bill!

DRAGON'S DOGMA - DARK ARISEN:

CROSSCODE:

I don't often post in this thread as I plan to get back to games or don't play enough to talk about them, yet do a few things to say on these three.

World's End Club

I picked it up hoping for Danganronpa (I'm sort tempted by the Switch package now) x Virtual Last Reward etc but from the few hours I played wasn't that and Balla's review didn't make it seem like worth playing any more that I sold for maybe even a little bit of profit.

Cris Tales

We've seen CT a few times and seems to be Switch is the lead platform as most of the reviews are for that version, and it looks like a Switch game if that makes any sense. From what we've seen, I liked the look I may have bought, likely on Switch as well, but it got released at launch for Xbox in Game Pass.

That's where I started playing and got to the second city, and it's just not very good. CT has some neat ideas like planet a poison tree in the past then bring it to the present, and it is fully grown. However, that seems about it neat ideas and some lovely character models just everything else is bland, and personally I thought well I could play more of this or start Yakuza LAD or go back to Ryza 2 etc which I sooner do.

I even had performance issues on the Series X that the reviews that mention the Switch issues likely true, I feel that this indie team may have been better to spread out the launches as even Dirt 5 had issues at launch because was on PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5, One, One X, XSS, XSX, Stadia, PC and that's from a big studio.

Could see a Balla like it, just maybe wait for patches, nothing else to play or a sale.

Tokyo Olympics

Tokyo was a free weekend game and I played it over this weekend. I liked it a lot, really fun arcade sports game, just for single player once I had a go at all 20 events and some challenges like Ball medley didn't seem like a lot to do, yet if I had local friends then easily see this being mixed in with some local Mario Kart etc

It does have online, just had some issue finding games, then when I did peeps only seemed to want to do 100m then bounce.

Odin Sphere Leifthrasir (Vita version).

I'm not certain I'll drop this game because it does have some very strong points, but I am finding the combat a bit repetitive. It's a whole lot of mashing the square button. It is very stylish-looking, and knocking enemies and juggling them in the air is satisfying. There are items and power ups that can vary things up a bit as well if you want, but it's not like you ever really need to use them.

On the other hand, as well as the combat being stylish the aesthetic of the game in general is nice. The hand-drawn 2D art is beautifully rendered and animated. I've been enjoying the story as well.

As a big fan of Muramasa I'd probably enjoy Odin Sphere, but unless it comes to Switch I'll probably live fine without it - much like Mas will live fine without WEC. For Cris Tales, I thought it was heavily choice-based: is that not the case?

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I don't have time for people who say they hate anime. That's like saying you hate reading books or listening to music or playing videogames. There are too many types of anime to hate them all, blanket, from an informed place: Studio Ghibli != Akira != Neon Genesis Evangelion != FullMetal Alchemist, for example. However, I do get that there are some tropes that appear more often than they should in anime, and so I think I know what people mean when they say they hate anime.

They mean Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE.

This is the most anime game ever to anime, and eventually that got the better of me. The tropes are all present and correct: cast of high-schoolers save the world, male hero with no personality, over-enthusiastic best friend, childhood friend sweetheart who's endearingly* awkward and awkwardly busty, ice maiden with a heart of gold, flirty older woman with too much jiggling... It even leverages Fire Emblem characters to turn Tiki into the loli-bait who warbles 'onii-chan' every five bloody seconds. That's before you get into combining it with idol culture, all of which I find beyond creepy. Oh and there's one coloured person... he's a photographer who I think was taking gravure shots in the original version. Sick

I liked the enemy and dungeon designs, and I tolerated the battle system (basic turn-based with a twist), but the writing and characters were bad and made me feel uneasy. Nope.

I only play CT for about 3hrs, and in that time I had one choice to make, really. Might be more throughout the game and becomes a bigger deal, but I doubt it changes the ending much and just be how you role-play as Crisbell & Co.

Little surprised about TMS, not the whole it's too anime, more on the combat system and sure I've not played much TMS, yet it felt Persona'ish (Maybe quicker especially in P5R) which is a great turn based system. I would be curious how you would get on with a Persona (Maybe not the first two) if they come to Switch (People could then also stop port begging, even with Switch having SMT games exclusives) or if you pick up SMTV and how that combat system is.

Subject: Re: Last game you DIDN'T finish and your thoughts Wed 4 Aug 2021 - 9:29

I foung Odin's Sphere to be considerably more reptitive and less interesting that Muramasa. Muramasa is the best though.

I am then even less fussed.

masofdas wrote:: I only play CT for about 3hrs, and in that time I had one choice to make, really. Might be more throughout the game and becomes a bigger deal, but I doubt it changes the ending much and just be how you role-play as Crisbell & Co.

Little surprised about TMS, not the whole it's too anime, more on the combat system and sure I've not played much TMS, yet it felt Persona'ish (Maybe quicker especially in P5R) which is a great turn based system. I would be curious how you would get on with a Persona (Maybe not the first two) if they come to Switch (People could then also stop port begging, even with Switch having SMT games exclusives) or if you pick up SMTV and how that combat system is.

Hmm. Might be one to wishlist down the line then.

The combat system, actually, reminds me mostly of Octopath, with emphasis on 'breaking' the opponent to reel off multiple hits. However, as I think I've said before, I think that pure turn-based battling should be a thing of the past - unless it's backed up by some really interesting management or jobs (like Octopath had) outside battle, that allow you to tailor your battle style. Otherwise I just don't find the systems interesting. Pokémon gets a free pass because of the emphasis on training your monster chums, so maybe SMTV would be similar? Just a bit more... horrific.

Anyway, the battle system was fine, but only fine. Certainly not enough to make up for the abysmal characters.

Subject: Re: Last game you DIDN'T finish and your thoughts Thu 5 Aug 2021 - 9:04

Wait Pokemon gets a free pass because you have to level up your party which is no different to another JPRG just you've replaced a mage with a electric mouse.

Though overall you sound like opposite EofGiz who still thinks Final Fantasy should have the combat system from VII then new fancy basically real time combat.

FE - Last game you DIDN'T finish and your thoughts - Page 29 Uncharted-2-amazon-map-685x385

Uncharted 2 is a game I have pretty much got towards the end of, and have been ignoring for months now. I have no desire to just start up the final bit.

It seems like everything people like about Uncharted 2 actually wound me up. The memorable start is still impressive over ten years later even if it is completely absurd, but the rest of the game wasn't all that special. The shonky stealth level with the British fella, the insane one-man army street sections and that god damn train. And a yeti fight? I found all these moments frustrating. I had a similar issue with Tomb Raider (2013) as far as the number of times I instantly died due to falling off of of a ledge. It just ruined any sense of immersion that the story had built.

The actual gunplay remains as fun as it was in the first game, but the fisticuffs are still trash. The characters and dialogue are a lot of fun and I looked forward to each cut scene, but the whole mowing down of goons in order to line Drake's pockets with treasure did have me straddling the line between "this guy's a joker" and "this guy's a right prick" more than I thought.

I've heard the final boss isn't great either, so I think I'll move on. The first game I really enjoyed but wasn't as keen on this sequel.

I felt pretty much the same about Uncharted 2, although I think I finished it back in the day. The thing that always gets me is that Naughty Dog clearly want you to feel like you are playing through a movie at times. There is so much effort put into those cutscenes, the voice acting, and the dialogue. And then, as you say, you one man army mass murder your way from checkpoint to checkpoint.

To me, Uncharted 2 is the zenith of shitty game design. Not in the sense that it's unplayable, or isn't at times fun, but in the sense that they couldn't think of a way to make the story they wanted to tell, an Indiana Jones style lovable rogue, interesting from a gameplay perspective and so instead they had you do a Gears of War cover shooter. It makes the actual game, however visually impressive it is, or however competent the shooting is, feel completely off-kilter to me.

Kinda takes away from all the wise guy quips Nathan Drake spouts when you check your kill count and realise you've offed about a thousand men by the end of the game.

Uncharted 2 is the last Uncharted game I've played, having also played the original. I seem to remember people saying that the 4th one is a bit more introspective, so I might try that one at some point.

Uncharted 4 is great, you can tell its of the of Last of Us, Lost Legacy is also decent.

I was just more shocked liked the average Uncharted but not the brilliant Uncharted 2.

Speaking for myself of course, and I've not played those games in so long, but from memory the original stuck to its theme a lot better. I felt like a treasure hunter, not some Rambo bloke fighting off a private army led by a jacked Russian.

The first game had a much better atmosphere, which counts for a lot in a game that puts such a big emphasis on its cut-scenes. It felt more like a cohesive whole, even if the actual mechanics were weaker.

For me, Uncharted 2 is peak contemporary Naughty Dog. It has some incredible set-pieces and these moments where the game is great. But outside of that you're left with a really average game that happens to look very pretty. That's how I feel about The Last of Us as well and I imagine it's how I'd feel about their more recent work too. Mechanically they're all competent, and at times they are good. But shoddy pacing and ludonarrative dissonance always leaves their work less than the sum of its parts.

Muss wrote:: To me, Uncharted 2 is the zenith of shitty game design. Not in the sense that it's unplayable, or isn't at times fun, but in the sense that they couldn't think of a way to make the story they wanted to tell, an Indiana Jones style lovable rogue, interesting from a gameplay perspective and so instead they had you do a Gears of War cover shooter. It makes the actual game, however visually impressive it is, or however competent the shooting is, feel completely off-kilter to me.

Muss wrote:: The first game had a much better atmosphere, which counts for a lot in a game that puts such a big emphasis on its cut-scenes. It felt more like a cohesive whole, even if the actual mechanics were weaker.

I think this is how I felt but couldn't put it into words as well. I actually went back through Uncharted 1 twice to do a collectibles sweep whereas yeah, 2 felt like pure set-piece gaming and leant more into trying to be a movie. The Gears of War comparison is apt as that made sense - you're covered in armour and a trained soldier. The theme matched the gameplay. I had similar sentiments towards Tomb Raider as that game quickly did away with the vulnerabilities as you became a mass murderer. So I know I'm in the minority! I have Uncharted 3 and 4 which I will play too.

Last edited by masofdas on Sat 7 Aug 2021 - 12:41; edited 1 time in total

Wow sound's almost like we've been playing completely different games as even Gears 5 has become more Action Adventure it's still a shooter to me compared to Naughty Dogs games, who to me are the best developer in the world (Clarkson Voice) and a new game from them I'd buy a PS5 right now.

Why we've even seen internal reports from Xbox saying likes of Last of Us Part II a masterpiece.

I think there's a pretty big gulf in the approach to U4 & TLOU 2 though, so I think it would be interesting to see the takes when it comes to those. I think they go some way to better integrate the narrative and the gameplay in those (though I guess shooting your way through is still an option so I guess it depends how you approach it)

Muss wrote:: For me, Uncharted 2 is peak contemporary Naughty Dog. It has some incredible set-pieces and these moments where the game is great. But outside of that you're left with a really average game that happens to look very pretty. That's how I feel about The Last of Us as well and I imagine it's how I'd feel about their more recent work too. Mechanically they're all competent, and at times they are good. But shoddy pacing and ludonarrative dissonance always leaves their work less than the sum of its parts.

In other words they are over developed by the numbers triple A horseshit! Thumbs Up!

Nah that's Ubisoft games Smile

As Naughty Dog are AAAA and what Perfect Dark is going to try to be.

masofdas wrote:: Nah that's Ubisoft games

Yep, most Ubi games are shite as well but the only one I play is Siege which is the outlier compared to everything else they produce. Smile

EDIT:

The problem for me is both Naughty dog and Ubi seemingly rely on a cookie cutter style design for most of their games which might make them really well polished on the surface but where the game matters (to me at least) they just end up not that fun to play.

Guess going have to disagree as to me it's crazy that Naughty Dog games such as Uncharted 4, and both Last of Us games aren't considered the benchmark for most games and I use Ubisoft as an example where they do to me they do paint numbers AAA game, this is not a bad thing, just umm like comfort food.

To use films as a comparison Naughty Dog do things you'd find at Cannes, Ubisoft more MCU.

I knew we disagreed before I posted that. Laughing

mas wrote:: as to me it's crazy that Naughty Dog games such as Uncharted 4, and both Last of Us games aren't considered the benchmark for most games

There's just tonnes more interesting and fun games out there.

Not sure about interesting but fun yeah, like I'm not going to compare a Last of Us Part II with the fun Mario Kart 8 as completely different things like how I use my film comparison which you can apply to other mediums as well, that's just how I see games as well.

I'm guessing the fundamental difference is that Jas is more focussed on how the game plays, whereas if the trappings around the game are good then Mas doesn't mind if the gameplay's not exemplary. Guess I'm more on Jas' side with some significant exceptions.

masofdas wrote:: Wait Pokemon gets a free pass because you have to level up your party which is no different to another JPRG just you've replaced a mage with a electric mouse.

Though overall you sound like opposite EofGiz who still thinks Final Fantasy should have the combat system from VII then new fancy basically real time combat.

I had to think about why I give Pokémon a free pass, and came down to it being because of the variety of monsters you can pick. It's similar to why despite the Bravely games not having the most interesting in-battle systems, I give them a free pass because of the tactical choices you can make based on the intricate job system before battle. In Pokémon you get to choose the 'characters' in your team, and it's like having 150+ potential jobs for each party slot. (Also I just prefer levelling up an electric mouse to a busty Japanese schoolgirl.)

Giz is wrong and he should feel wrong. Tingle

I definitely do lean more to how a game plays than anything else but even when it comes to world building and narrative TLOU isn't even close to games like Ghost trick, Hades & Hollow Knight. (and that's just some examples off the top of my head)

I personally feel Part II gameplay is best we've had in a Naughty Dog game but does lack compared to other games and even brought in the Xboxes internal review, yet was also mentioned as game to strife for.

And if we had those reviews like back in the day everything was marked then a TLoUPII would be getting 10/10 in most of them, which can make up if any shortcomings and other games may in other areas, just when everything is so exemplary why its one of the best ever.

That's what I find the most mind boggling, as sure if I was talking about Death Stranding a game I hold in high regard can get everyone wouldn't be a fan but most of Naughty Dog games are some of the highest rated of all-time which TLoUPII being the most award winning game ever, that not just be me being silly, then again I don't like a few very highly rated games which everyone loves.

Yes EofGiz should feel bad as he can play Dragon Quest instead for that traditional JRPG.

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