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 PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play

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PostSubject: To Merge   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyWed 21 Jul 2021 - 12:22

That’s the Pro Evolution Soccer series quietly ending after twenty years – Konami have announced that it’s being renamed eFootball, and that there’ll be no more retail and paid annual releases from now on.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-07-21-pes-renamed-efootball-goes-free-to-play-digital-only

Were there any PES players here? I used to be. I can’t understate what a massive deal it was in the PS2’s days in particular. I remember seeing a massive queue of hundreds of people outside GAME on Buchanan Street ahead of the launch of the third or fourth one. I’m sure it was constantly a best seller too, always up the top of the charts. Everybody was into it, and rightly so, it was a superb football game for it's time. PES made a disastrous debut on PS3 but had a clever revival on Wii, but to be honest I haven’t really bothered with it since the original one on 3DS about a decade ago. I’m not sure what it’s reputation was like in recent times, but it was obvious that it trailed well behind FIFA in terms of sales. Did something happen?

It leaves a massive gap in the market for a football game. I have never, ever understood why Nintendo haven’t got into making their own football games. I’m not talking about Mario Strikers – although that would be very welcome - but something more along the lines of, well, Pro Evolution Soccer. It’s money on the table.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyWed 21 Jul 2021 - 12:52

Me and Smurf only tweeting about it the other day. Writing on the wall with all these Lite versions etc.

Really now the Football game for me is FM as I don't know how well f2p eFootball will be as first impressions of just exhibitions with 9 teams isn't great and FIFA all about FUT.

It's basically going the way of NFL, MLB etc with the one licensed game with possible offshoots.
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PostSubject: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyWed 21 Jul 2021 - 13:19

Is anyone excited for this?

PES goes free to play and gets a rebrand

I've always thought, a football game with roster update dlcs, and sequels when there's something worth showing off, was a concept I could get behind. But this free to play game seems to be a bastard form of that. It's going to launch with 9 teams. I get that its got cross-platform play and that's great. Imagine a free to play football game you can play exhibition matches against your mates with. But beyond that, this feels a bit like a demo with online play?

I'm always weary of anything with a roadmap. It'll only be as good as they say it will be, if enough people pay for development to continue. Maybe it'll get good, I can't even remember the last football game I bought, but I'm finding it hard to be excited for this.

To put it into perspective, if you get the EA pass you can just have Fifa... and a load of other EA games. You can have it with an Xbox gamepass sub too, and you can pick up an old version for cheap. I know this is 'free' but I don't see the value here.

I've not followed football games, I guess nothing can stand against the financial might of Fifa anymore, so perhaps a free to play model is where PES needed to go. But I feel like if that's the play here, you've got to launch with more than they're offering right now or this'll just go the way of all those games as a service you've already forgotten about.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyWed 21 Jul 2021 - 17:43

@The Cappuccino Kid wrote:
That’s the Pro Evolution Soccer series quietly ending after twenty years – Konami have announced that it’s being renamed eFootball, and that there’ll be no more retail and paid annual releases from now on.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-07-21-pes-renamed-efootball-goes-free-to-play-digital-only

Were there any PES players here? I used to be. I can’t understate what a massive deal it was in the PS2’s days in particular. I remember seeing a massive queue of hundreds of people outside GAME on Buchanan Street ahead of the launch of the third or fourth one. I’m sure it was constantly a best seller too, always up the top of the charts. Everybody was into it, and rightly so, it was a superb football game for it's time. PES made a disastrous debut on PS3 but had a clever revival on Wii, but to be honest I haven’t really bothered with it since the original one on 3DS about a decade ago. I’m not sure what it’s reputation was like in recent times, but it was obvious that it trailed well behind FIFA in terms of sales. Did something happen?

It leaves a massive gap in the market for a football game. I have never, ever understood why Nintendo haven’t got into making their own football games. I’m not talking about Mario Strikers – although that would be very welcome - but something more along the lines of, well, Pro Evolution Soccer. It’s money on the table.

Absolutely gutted to hear this news, I continually played this series since ISS pro evo on playstation with the only one I didn't get on with at all was the ps3 debut you mentioned. I really thought they were on the right track when they rightfully decided last year not to make a full version of PES for 2021 to fully focus the new consoles.........


Konami wrote:
Watch on YouTube
"This title is being developed with an updated engine that will enable us to dazzle you with staggering improvements to all areas of the game," Konami wrote of next year's effort. "Expect more realistic player models and animations, enhanced physics, photorealistic visuals, and much much more.

"We recognise that many of you are enthusiastic for new myClub and Master League content, and we are also excited to share that large updates are in the works for both of these modes.

"Currently, we aim to begin testing of our next-gen title sometime in mid-2021, with an estimated release date later in the same year."

Looking up the above quote from July last year makes it sting all the more especially the bold part mentioning big revamps for master league which was the only reason I played PES. I guess these modes could technically still happen but I'm not going to hold my breath when it's F2P and there really isn't any way they can monetise a single player mode like the master league.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyWed 21 Jul 2021 - 18:27

There's a timeline image thing which has something like team manager mode listed as future update, guess they'll sell that as DLC.

Now everyone loves Konami.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyWed 21 Jul 2021 - 19:16

It's really sad to see PES go as it's literally just FIFA now. I didn't realise there was chat about it here when I made that eFootball thread earlier!

I don't understand what they're doing. eFootball is launching with 9 teams, a big roadmap, and not a word on the business model. In theory, a free to play footy game that will last a console gen is a good idea. Those card modes people gamble on in FIFA are popular too, so you'd think some sort of master league spin off designed around it could take off as long as it has the players. But it just doesn't look like Konami are confident enough about PES or eFootball anymore.

It's a demo with delusions of grandeur.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyWed 21 Jul 2021 - 19:26

PES already had a mode like FUT and is listed as something on the road map.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyWed 21 Jul 2021 - 19:46

Even I'm a little sad about this. I only got on with two footie games, and they were both ISS (98 and... 2000 maybe? One of the Game Boy Colour ones). Now that's all gone.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyWed 21 Jul 2021 - 19:52

It's a bold decision given the way things are going with gambling laws, if they aim to make money on this then I don't know how they're gonna do it without MyClub. I assume they can just charge for season updates which is pretty much what FIFA will be doing anyway.

I'll give it a try anyway, if things like Master League are a one off payment then that's could be ok, I'd always take this over FIFA anyway, a badly presented f2p game that is still enjoyable to play is always better than a yearly full price release of a fully licensed game with piss poor gameplay.

It's strange to drop the name but PES seems to have gained such a low reputation in recent years a rebrand might do it some good, it's a rubbish rebrand though I should add.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyWed 21 Jul 2021 - 21:47

Cappa wrote:
Were there any PES players here?

Big PES head here. I've owned every one since PES 2 on PS2. PES 4 holds fond memories as I played it on Xbox Live, then had PES 5 and 6 on PS2. Went to Uni in 2007 and PES 6 was a mandatory part of the pre-drinks experience (along with Guitar Hero). Even ploughed hundreds of hours into PES 6 on 360, which was a completely different game - very arcadey. Stuck with it during the rubbish PES 2008, the superb PES 2009 (which nearly cost me my degree, thanks to the amount of lectures I'd skip in favour of one more United vs. Barca 12-10 epic). Continued to get 2010 through to 2016 and even nabbed one of them on PS2 as it was literally the old PES just with updated teams. 2017 was the first one I had on PS4 and with the Option File feature, I thought PES was bang on form again. 2020 is probably the peak of the series, but by then, old PES players had either grown up and had families, or were playing FIFA instead. 2021 is currently a few quid on PS4 and it's a no-brainer, especially with the customised kits you can download.

Cappa wrote:
It was obvious that it trailed well behind FIFA in terms of sales. Did something happen?

PES has been due an overhaul for nearly a decade now. Not a lot has changed as far as offline goes, but Master League is still as gripping as ever. It sounds like their free-to-play model has made them more money than the traditional model. I am actually excited about this change.

@Muss wrote:
It's really sad to see PES go as it's literally just FIFA now.

I think they are right to strip the PES name - it's a legacy name with a lot of baggage. And not always in a positive way. If I ask my mates at work if they are getting the new PES game, they look at me like I've just shat on their foot. It's a brand that's tarnished and it's best to leave the memories as they are.

Cappa wrote:
It leaves a massive gap in the market for a football game. I have never, ever understood why Nintendo haven’t got into making their own football games. I’m not talking about Mario Strikers – although that would be very welcome - but something more along the lines of, well, Pro Evolution Soccer. It’s money on the table.

Yep - it genuinely boggles the mind that the biggest sport in the world has only two options. We've got golf games coming out of our arse, with indie, cartoonish, simulation and everything in between catered for. Yet we only get two attempts at simulations, with FIFA the financial heavyweight strutting its stuff like an unchallenged Champions League powerhouse, and PES the plucky League 1 club fighting administration after falling down the league, but with a significant fanbase awaiting it's return to greatness. Mario Strikers, Virtua Striker, Actua Soccer, Red Card, [insert famous player]'s Soccer, SEGA Soccer Slam! Was Captain Tsubasa any good? Definitely seems like a missed opportunity.

Ultimately, I am divided. On the one hand, Konami hasn't made a great videogame in a long time. They literally lied to the fans by saying "Sorry, this year is just a roster update, as we are busy working on the new next-gen title" yet it's not really a next-gen game - it's on PS4 still. Maybe Covid affected it, but I'm sceptical. Similarly, the fact they are calling it eFootball and there is this shift towards eSports and online gaming, is like McDonald's saying they are going to change their menu to be mostly salad. Sure, it's an option that's been there, but it's never been a strength, if anything the online part of PES is its worst asset. It's shite compared to FIFA. MyClub is fine but broken. You end up with the best players a week after release. Everyone I know who still plays it (which isn't many these days) buys PES just for the Master League, and maybe the Become a Legend mode. That's why I've bought it each year, and then the occasional match against a friend who lives across the country. However, as vocal and passionate as we are, I suspect we are a tiny proportion of the PES worldwide audience. You go on Konami's/PES' social media and it's full of feedback from South America, the Middle East, and Asia too. The PES Mobile game is hugely popular in these areas and looking at the Android edition of 2021, it's had 100 million+ downloads (7 million reviews). Not sure what it's like on Apple, but it sounds like there's a large number of PES players outside of the traditional console audience.

I think PES will be fine and let's face it, the core of the PES engine is great. Content updates and tweaks to gameplay via patches have me interested, and even if they add ONE THING to the Master League, it's more than they have done in years. They won't get rid of Master League. They can't. Someone will just make an indie equivalent that's JUST Master League and make a fortune, a la Stardew Valley.

I'm intrigued to see what happens, and the fact people are talking about PES again is great! Konami has such a huge audience with PES (or eFootball) that a F2P model could transform them if it works. I just hope the editing is still an option, as it makes an awkward unlicensed title with its "yeah but it still plays great" argument, become a FIFA-beater.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyThu 22 Jul 2021 - 0:59

@gjones wrote:
Yep - it genuinely boggles the mind that the biggest sport in the world has only two options. We've got golf games coming out of our arse, with indie, cartoonish, simulation and everything in between catered for. Yet we only get two attempts at simulations, with FIFA the financial heavyweight strutting its stuff like an unchallenged Champions League powerhouse, and PES the plucky League 1 club fighting administration after falling down the league, but with a significant fanbase awaiting it's return to greatness. Mario Strikers, Virtua Striker, Actua Soccer, Red Card, [insert famous player]'s Soccer, SEGA Soccer Slam! Was Captain Tsubasa any good? Definitely seems like a missed opportunity.

@gjones wrote:
They won't get rid of Master League. They can't. Someone will just make an indie equivalent that's JUST Master League and make a fortune, a la Stardew Valley.

It's genuinely an open net for anyone that wants to make a fun football game, for me it can be arcade-y or sim based as long as it has a fun master league type experience where I can build my team from scratch to play in various tournaments. I can't think of many devs that would be willing to try it though apart from 2K sports, but their approach probably wouldn't be much different from what EA and Konami have been doing.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyThu 22 Jul 2021 - 1:27

MARIO
STRIKERS
3
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyThu 22 Jul 2021 - 10:21

@Treesmurf wrote:


I'll give it a try anyway, if things like Master League are a one off payment then that's could be ok, I'd always take this over FIFA anyway, a badly presented f2p game that is still enjoyable to play is always better than a yearly full price release of a fully licensed game with piss poor gameplay..

Thing is, you can already get FIFA without paying directly for each edition. The last 3 FIFA's are in the Xbox gamepass sub, and you can also buy the EA gamepass and get access to FIFA and everything else they make. So the problem for eFootball is that they're competing against a complete game which you can buy traditionally or via a subscription.

I think it's really bizarre that Konami haven't built this entire thing around an online master league mode with some sort of loot box type system. The promo video featured Messi, Iniesta etc in custom kits. And the mode that's most popular in Fifa is the one with a load of custom teams and real players. Imagine if this was revealed with a fully fledged Master League mode, and a fantasy draft done by some superstars, Pele, Ronaldo, Beckham etc, picking their dream teams [which could be available for exhibition matches at launch]. It doesn't have to have clubs in it, it could be something new which focuses on getting licences for players rather than clubs [not that I know how this would work legally!]. And this is something different of course, but it feels a bit cart before dead horse at the moment. That we don't know anything about the microtransactions is a red flag.

If this was to have the success of a Fortnight, or a LOL, (not that I think those are realistic targets, more if it's to be relatively a hit) then I think it needs that flagship mode everything else is built around. It needs an identity. And at the moment, I'm struggling to see it. So what I mean by being sad that PES has gone, is less that I'll miss the name (although I will), and more that I'm worried eFootball will just go the way of the Avengers or Anthem. Games with hugely ambitious roadmaps that weren't good enough on release and went out with a whimper.

Having said that, I probably will give it a download and the cross platform stuff is a great idea. This could, potentially, be great. It's just a bit vague and Konami are running the show.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyThu 22 Jul 2021 - 14:07

Worthwhile moving all this chat to the thread Muss made yesterday, if Balladeer wants to sort that out.

I had no idea people felt so strongly about PES. I’ve got great memories of it, but to me it felt like “a legacy name with a lot of baggage”. The fact people are talking about PES again is great, agreed, and I think I’ll give this F2P version a look.

Kind of off-topic, but because they were mentioned: the idea of 2K Sports doing a football game sends shivers down my spine. Wrestling and basketball games have been untouchable for years since they got their hands on those WWE and NBA licenses, and not at all in a good way. Also, I remembered overnight that Nintendo did have a go at a football game, a management sim on the 3DS called Nintendo Pocket Football Club. It was mince.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyThu 22 Jul 2021 - 15:07

Always thought the 2K basketball games were held in quite high regard, but maybe EA's basketball games have just been that bad? Haven't played a 2K game since the mid 2010s to be fair.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyThu 22 Jul 2021 - 15:35

Yeah the 2K NBA games are like the benchmark for sports games.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyThu 22 Jul 2021 - 16:55

Yeah NBA 2K21 is meant to be class, but I personally have no interest in a basketball sim. A 2K "soccer" game could work, although it could feel too American and corporate after PES. Part of the charm of PES is its Japanese take on European football - it always feels more like a football match compared to FIFA's depiction of a Sky Sports broadcast of one. It had personality. I'm not sure 2K games do to the same degree.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyThu 22 Jul 2021 - 18:53

I remember really liking the sports broadcast feel on NBA 2KWhatever... for about the first 4 games, and then I wished it would just autoskip.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyThu 22 Jul 2021 - 19:24

Well, at least this is something.




I'm going to need to see an offline demo of some sort before they try to sell that though as I wasn't impressed by the online demo they done in June.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptyFri 23 Jul 2021 - 20:52

I'll be interested to see how many modes move over to this, I wonder if edit mode will be an option as that was one of the biggest uses for me when I play with friends, we all have our own players and make transfers with each other, without that I don't think we'd bother playing it together.

@Muss wrote:
Thing is, you can already get FIFA without paying directly for each edition. The last 3 FIFA's are in the Xbox gamepass sub, and you can also buy the EA gamepass and get access to FIFA and everything else they make. So the problem for eFootball is that they're competing against a complete game which you can buy traditionally or via a subscription.

Not quite that simple as it doesn't usually come to gamepass until well in to game's lifespan, by the season's end I think so there's still the chance people might give it a chance. Think it might have a trial version but anyone who wants to play a football game will play for much longer than the 10 hours they get.
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PostSubject: Re: PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play   PES is dead, eFootball goes free-to-play EmptySun 25 Jul 2021 - 17:00

If you get stuck and it doesn't work out, there's always Furballs.
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